Later that year, Dr. Ikejiani
returned to Nigeria and then proceeded to serve his
nation in several capacities. He has been Medical Director of Pfizer
laboratories; one of the founding fathers and members of the governing council
of the University of Nigeria; lecturer in pathology University of Nigeria;
Pro-Chancellor and chairman of the council University of Ibadan;
Consultant pathologist University teaching hospital Ibadan;
and director of national clinic laboratories Ibadan
and Lagos.
In 1960 he was appointed chairman of the Nigerian Railway
Corporation and pathologist-in-chief of the Nigerian Railway medical center Lagos. Dr. Ikejiani
has also served as a member of the board of directors of Nigerian Ports
Authority and Nigerian Coal Corporation. Between 1962-1966
he was president of the Nigerian Medical Association.
During the Civil War, Dr. Ikejiani
was director of laboratory services in Biafra, and Ambassador Plenipotentiary
for the head of state of Biafra. Since 1971, Dr. Ikejiani has
lived in exile in Canada. He has had an equally
distinguished career in Canada serving as the Pathologist-in
chief and Director of laboratories for Glace Bay General and community
hospitals; New Waterford consolidated hospital and Consultant Pathologist for
the Regional hospital of Sydney. He served as president of the
medical staff in Glace Bay from 1984-85 and as Medical Director of Glace Bay Community hospital
from 1987 - 1993. Since retiring in 1997, Dr. Ikejiani
has spent much of his time writing � a novel and his memoirs.�
Dr. Ikejiani is a Fellow of the Royal College of
Pathologists (F.R.C. Path.) London, England. He is also a Fellow of the
Medical College of Pathologists Nigeria, and a Fellow of the West African
College of Physicians. In addition he is a member of the Canadian Medical
Association, The Canadian Association of Pathologists, the Canadian Association
of Medical Microbiologists, and the Canadian College of Microbiologists. He is also a
member of The Canadian Society of Clinical and Investigative Medicine and has a
life membership at the New York Academy of Sciences. On August 1996, the
Canadian Medical Association elected him to senior membership.
He has also been honored with honorary degrees of Doctor of Science
(D.Sc.) from Lincoln University, Lincoln Pennsylvania, University of Nigeria Nsukka and a Doctor of Literature (D.Litt) from University College of Cape Breton, Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada.
Cyril Ibe
is the host and executive producer of "Afriscope"
a weekly radio program on Africa
broadcast on three Chicago
public radio stations and contributes essays and commentaries to WBEZ-FM. Born in Nigeria;
the naturalized U.S.
citizen was the cofounder and editor-in-chief of African New breed magazine
from 1990 to 1995. Previously he was a staff writer for the Pioneer Press
newspapers in Chicago
and held internships at the Cincinnati Enquirer and the Pittsburgh Press. He
has a bachelor's degree in communications from Central
State
University
in Wilberforce,
Ohio
and a master's in Journalism degree from Ohio
University
in Athens,
Ohio.
The Interview Series by the Chinua
Achebe Foundation
The
committee:� Sir, why do you consider this Project
valuable?
Dr. Ikejiani: I�ve
never seen any other project like it. I�ve never seen where people have made
studies, collated various ideas about what�s happening in the country, and out
of that, tried to offer solutions. That�s why I�m saying it�s very good. When
people read all this, they will be able to isolate from it what they can do to
help the country. This is an attempt to find solutions to our problems; it has
become necessary, because we have a big problem in Nigeria. The focus of this project is to put forward
solutions from great Nigerian minds committed to the betterment of our nation.
From reading it and sorting out the various things that people say, some
solutions to the problems may be found.
Ibe: What would you suggest in making this project a
success so that it will be an instrument for change in the future?
Dr. Ikejiani: When
they collate [the various views] together, by reading all of them they will be
able to sort out what should be done that would help Nigeria
Nigerian Leaders and Nigerian Leadership
Ibe: Sir, in Nigeria we decry the lack of leadership. Leadership is
only associated with wealth, with money, people in government getting their way
every time because they can bribe their way through people�s hearts.
Dr. Ikejiani:
There are some true leaders, but they are not known. To be known in Nigeria you have to have money. If you don�t have money,
nobody will listen to you in the village or anywhere. Suppose I go to Nigeria now and preach that what is best for Nigeria is to have a federal system. People won�t listen
to me; but if I spend a lot of money, they will listen to me. It�s difficult,
extremely difficult�. We have to find a way to end this mad love of money.
Ibe:� How can Nigeria produce great leadership? Nigerians are so
accepting of poor conditions, not challenging so-called leaders who take
national funds, flaunt it publicly, or stash incredible amounts away in Swiss
and other foreign banks. Does our being so accepting of mediocrity as a nation,
in a sense, make us complicit in the poor conditions that we suffer from our
leaders?
Dr. Ikejiani:
Nigerians will begin to produce great leaders when they learn to demand from
them accountability to the nation. That�s the only way to change the present
situation in Nigeria. Otherwise I don�t see how you can change Nigeria by talking, or by pleading. No, you can�t change
it that way�..The leader must bring law breakers to book.
Ibe:� The kind of
leader you are describing is a benevolent dictator. Some people saw that in
past military dictators. Do you agree with the concept of a benevolent
dictator?
Dr. Ikejiani: No I
don�t agree at all. Look at all the money Abacha took
away from Nigeria. Look at what happened to his family. It�s
disgraceful. There�s nowhere in the world where this sort of thing happens. So
I don�t call them leaders. And these are military people, you know. It�s very difficult
that you find military people creating conditions that make for democracy
anywhere in the world. As a matter of fact it�s the military that caused the
fall of the Roman Empire�.I used to dream that Nigeria was simple. But Nigeria is not all that simple. The thing about Nigeria, as well, is that the people tolerate unacceptable
conditions of living. How can the government not pay people their salaries for
two or three months, and yet, they don�t say anything? Nigerians are part and
parcel of the problem. They allow things to go on as they are.
The
Committee: How do we end Nigeria�s rule by �cults of mediocrity� and make it
possible for honest, qualified, hardworking Nigerians to lead the nation?
Dr. Ikejiani: We
will need a constitutional amendment. In America they are working on election reform�we need
something similar�Stop these army men from destroying Nigeria�. You know Zik in his
book �The Question of Being President�
believed that the Presidential system was wrong for Nigeria�that we should return to the Parliamentary System
of Government. I agree with him. The Presidential system places too much power
in the hands of the president�we need the Parliamentary system to spread that
power away from the center.
Ibe:� Are there
some Nigerian leaders in history whose qualities should be emulated, or are
there particular qualities that should be dispensed with in order to build a
better future for the country?
Dr. Ikejiani: The
Nigerian leaders that I know of were few. I can tell you a little bit about the
Sarduana of Sokoto, Awolowo and Zik. They did their
work for their country. Sarduana cared for the north,
not for himself. Zik ruled the east, no corruption at
all; there was not one evidence of corruption during his time. The same thing
with Awolowo; Awolowo was
not corrupt. The only thing was that Awolowo said
that Nigeria was divided; he wanted Zik
to remain in the east; he in the west, the Sarduana
in the north and they would meet in the center. The present leaders, I make no
comment about them. But the three leaders that ruled Nigeria in my time were great leaders. They may have had
deficiencies in certain aspects, but they led the country well.
Ibe:� Sir, what
did Awolowo, Zik and the Sarduana have in common that made them great leaders?
Dr. Ikejiani: They
were interested in their people; in improving people�s lives. Awolowo brought the first free education [to the west],
followed by the east. Sarduana did a lot for the
north; he sent a lot of northerners to school. These three men led Nigeria well. Even with all their differences, they were
good.
Ibe:� In a sense
the strong ethnic leadership of these three people: Sarduana
in the north, Awolowo in the west and Zik in the east helped to perpetuate the strong feeling of
ethnicity in Nigeria today � I am Igbo first, I am Yoruba first, I am Hausa
first and Nigerian second�
Dr. Ikejiani:
[cuts in] No, no, I don�t think they perpetuated it. Zik
went to Lagos; he ran for an election in the west and won. At
that time we learned about one Nigeria without even knowing what Nigeria was. I think they [Zik, Awolowo and the Sarduana] did not
perpetuate ethnicity, because what was there was there. The Igbo are the
largest population in eastern Nigeria. They number at least today so many millions of
people and they occupy a land mass where they are the only people living. It is
the same with the Yoruba in the west, the Sarduana of
Sokoto and his people in the north. They are the
largest population in the north. You cannot neglect that; it�s not perpetuating
ethnicity. It is what is there. If you neglect that, you are making a great
mistake.
Corruption in Nigeria
Ibe:� The age-old
issue that plagues Nigeria is corruption -- at all different levels. How did
we come to be regarded as country of corrupt people in Nigeria? How did that become our culture and how can we
get out of it?
Dr. Ikejiani: Now
I know that corruption is rife in Nigeria. Corruption is not only for the big people it
affects the small people too. Corruption begins from the highest level, and
creeps down to the lowest. The only way to wipe out corruption is by engaging
honest people at the top -- they are there, we all know who they are -- and to
hold people accountable and punish those who engage in corrupt behaviour. That�s the only way.
The
Committee: What are some of the
roots of Nigerian corruption?
Dr. Ikejiani: Our
oil industry is a major source of that corruption. Visionless leadership is
another� There is no accountability�Nigerians don�t know how much oil is
produced, but it�s the right of the people to know. There is no openness�no
transparency in government. There should be checks and balances in government.
We shall need to severely punish those who loot the national treasury� Look at
what is happening with the IG of Police�disgraceful!
�
The
Committee: Should we mandate
unannounced auditing by non-government firms with impeccable reputations to
make government earnings public?
Dr. Ikejiani: Yes,
Yes�.they should audit and make sure they publish oil corporation accounts �
oil company costs, expenditures, salaries, budgets, etc for the people to see.
Finding auditors that are not corrupt�..that will be the challenge.
The
Committee: If people in power who are corrupt go to jail like executives of
Enron in America; will that serve as a deterrent?
Dr. Ikejiani:
Under the right system it will�under the wrong system it may not�see what is
happening in Nigeria today... The Oputa
Report under this government has only just been made public�the Dr. Pius Okigbo report up till today has not been made public�
(Sigh)
Ibe:� Corruption
comes down to issues of morality and integrity. How could those virtues be
instilled in people, from the lowest to the highest?
Dr. Ikejiani: You
can�t instill it. The thing that pays now is corruption. Morality? We have
Christianity (shrugs). We are a Christian and Muslim country. I was brought up
a Christian. Today there are churches everywhere, but are they preaching real
Christianity? They do not always tell the truth in our churches. To cure
corruption requires groups of honest, incorruptible leaders. There are very few
leaders in Nigeria right now, because many benefit from corruption.
THE ANAMBRA CRISIS
The Committee: What do you think about what is going
on in your home state of Anambra?
Dr. Ikejiani: �I
could not have imagined that this could
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happen. This is a story of money and the corruption
of money� Ngige did not win the election �But let�s
look closely at Ngige� This chap was bold enough to
confess about his meeting at [Okija Shrine]. Why do Anambra people like him...?
Because unlike his predecessors he has been paying salaries, pensions, building
roads... But he has his detractors, those who are against him� However the
important thing is that the people of Anambra support him, and like the people
I support the governor because he produces results.
The Committee: So even though he did not win the election,
you support him?
Dr. Ikejiani: �Yes, I
support him because he is doing something, at long last, for the people. One of
the biggest calamities of Nigeria is the corruption of the
Law. Was it not a federal judge that kept ruling in the other fellow�s favor?
He was obviously corrupt. If the states had a functional constitution, they
would call for elections� The system is broken�we need to fix it.
The Committee: Why have the �Leaders� in Anambra State not come together to
solve the Problem?
Dr. Ikejiani: �Who
and where are these �leaders?� Most of them are implicated in the problem. Look
at what happened during the presidential election � 5 candidates for president,
does that make any sense? Ohaneze and the other groups - where are they? The
problem is that a number of these people are not reliable leaders.
Ibe:� But, given
that there�s been a lot of distrust among the Igbo, should not the Igbo be
fixing their own house as well? Can the Igbo spirit of old still be there to
make the Igbo successful once again?
Dr. Ikejiani:� [cuts in]�Yes, Yes�the Igbo spirit is there.
They are doing well in the commercial sector. The spirit is there, but they
don�t have security.
Confederation for Nigeria:
Ibe:� How will
marginalized groups be reintegrated effectively into Nigerian Politics? Can they
have any impact?
Dr. Ikejiani: Of
course; marginalized groups can exert a great influence if they are united,
mature, truthful and honest. Unfortunately, however, if you are honest in Nigeria you won�t be liked. The point I�m making is this
-- you have to change the structure in Nigeria, and you have to change the structure in
marginalized areas in particular. End the rule of mediocrity�find honest
people. Honest people are not always the most successful people in Nigeria because we maintain a culture of mediocrity.
Honest people leave the country if they are educated, because it is suffocating
for them. I don�t think we�ve learned anything from the civil war. What we�ve
learned is that the people from the minority areas have oil and they want to be
free. What we�ve learned is that the Igbo are divided and cannot unite to
formulate any policy. As I was saying� look at the last [presidential]
election; five Igbo candidates were running for president. It�s ridiculous; why
were there more than one candidate when their goals supposedly were the same?
The safety for EVERYBODY in Nigeria, including the minorities and the Igbo, is to have
a true � mark true with capital word TRUE � confederation.
Ibe:� What would
be the true nature of a confederation in Nigeria, and how can this be structured to address the
diverse issues of different ethnic and political groups?
Dr. Ikejiani:� I think the perfect idea of a confederation
would be like the situation in Canada. Canada has a true confederation. I�ll give you an example.
Self-interest groups in Quebec
have been threatening secession from the country for years; however, the vast
majority of Quebecois wish to remain within the confederation, for its
benefits. Unfortunately, in Nigeria�s case, the country, which is only a little larger
than Ontario - a single province � has been divided into 36
states. It�s unworkable.
Ibe:� Sir, but if
Nigeria were to return to a parliamentary system [of government] which it
experimented with right after independence, having invested in the American
style of government after that -� what
are the implications of starting all over again -- in a sense -- with a system
that it previously attempted?
Dr. Ikejiani:� It did not experiment. It did not have a true
confederation; at no time did Nigeria have a true confederation. What we had were three
states: east, west and north. That�s all. And each state was controlled by a
minority: the Igbo in the east, the Yoruba in the west, and the Hausas in the
north. That�s all. We never had a true parliamentary form of government. So we
were not experimenting.
Improving the Educational System
The committee: What was your role in the establishment of
the University of Nigeria Nsukka?
Dr. Ikejiani: �Zik invited me to join the project. We asked the Eastern
Nigeria Development Corporation (ENDC) to set aside
500,000 pounds a year for 5 years. With 2.5 million pounds we built and opened
the university in 1960. It was different in many ways and atypical � we had a
different curriculum, and unlike Ibadan that was enrolling 50
-100 students a year we started with 1000. We also had our own entrance
examination � did away with Cambridge - kept standards very
high. People were dedicated. And then they messed things up� (Sigh)
The Committee: So, sir; how can we improve
educational standards in Nigeria today?
Dr. Ikejiani: �Universities should be allowed to administer
their own entrance examinations � that is what they do abroad. Good
universities will keep standards very high. Eliminate the current system [JAMB].
Education should be handed back to the States with supplementary funding from
the Federal government. In Canada, students attend school
with government loans and then pay them back when they start working� That used
to be the case in Nigeria�Free; compulsory primary
school education should be a national policy like Awolowo
implemented in the west. I can�t see how Nigeria can advance without
it�We should also return the mission schools back to the missions and religious
groups.
The Committee: All this change will cost money. Where will
the money come from?
Dr. Ikejiani: �No one
pays taxes in Nigeria because there is so much
corruption. In a functional system the taxes from the Oil Industry could pay
for education and much more.
The committee: What about the Private Sector?
Dr. Ikejiani: �Yes,
individuals and private organizations can play a role.
The Committee: Some pundits believe that one way to end
the apathy of the Nigerian polity, demilitarize the thinking of politics and
remind Nigerians that Democracy as defined by Lincoln means �government of the
people, by the people, and for the people;� is to introduce civic education in
schools? Do you agree?
Dr. Ikejiani: �Yes, I
agree. That is very necessary. That is not a new idea. Awolowo
and Zik developed structures that made that possible
in the past. Most people learnt about politics from these men and in school.
Even the uneducated could pick things up�
Improving the Healthcare System
The
Committee: Our health system has
broken down. Should Nigeria adopt a National Health Program like the Canadians
and the U.K, Socialized Medicine in Scandinavia, or the amalgam of systems in America?
Dr. Ikejiani:� [cuts in]: America has no system�It is too expensive� I like what the
Canadians have...the Europeans�� Look; we
have to decide what kind of system we want, then we need to develop hospitals
at the national, state, local and community levels. One problem we have now is
that there are too many private sector hospitals. Everybody in Nigeria who is a doctor has a �hospital.� There are no
standards.
The
Committee: What should be the role
of the government in health delivery?
�
Dr. Ikejiani:�� The government needs to be more actively involved.
Even if they just revamped the hospitals already there and improve standards,
that would be a beginning...but we need more hospitals. We can start at the
national level build four excellent hospitals and then move to the state and
local levels. You see the government plays a role in setting standards. In America and Canada they have commissions that review standards�they
can close you down if you don�t meet the standards...
The
Committee: That sounds like
setting up a vast bureaucracy?
Dr. Ikejiani:� No, No. If you do it right, you can actually
streamline bureaucracy, increase accountability, improve standards. Doctors
should play an active role in the planning. When the British left, we ran a
system that worked. There were people like Dr. M.A Majekodunmi; dedicated people. It has been done
before... Things are so corrupt now...
Ibe:� Having
lived in Canada for years now, what are some of the things Nigeria can borrow from Canada�s healthcare system?
Dr. Ikejiani:� We learn the same medicine, but the question
is how can it be applied in Nigeria�.Suppose the government says to doctors to
treat every patient, have doctors to take care of medical service�.Suppose the
government says that for doctors - general practitioners � for every patient
that you treat I will pay you five, or ten or twenty or hundred naira. And then
they say to specialists - for every patient you see, I�ll pay you two hundred,
or five hundred or one thousand naira as the case may be. The doctors will be
in hospitals admitting patients, and not on strike. The nurses are employed,
the teaching staff is there. It would be better, but can they do it in Nigeria? That�s what they do here. That�s the difference
between us. Can we establish this in Nigeria?
The
Committee: How do we pay for this
system that you envision...? A National Health Program, with limited government
bureaucracy and active physician involvement?
Dr. Ikejiani:� In Scotland they raised money with a tobacco tax. Nobody pays
taxes in Nigeria. The oil companies don�t pay taxes. In other
countries, that is how you pay for health care. I tell you, if the people see
that their taxes are going to improve their standard of living they will
happily pay. Corruption, you see, is holding us back�.
Ibe:� Speak to
some of the most prevalent diseases that still affect our people today�
Dr. Ikejiani:� Everybody suffers from malaria in Nigeria. We don�t have anything to prevent it. We could do
a lot to prevent it�.So many fake drugs (sigh)�.We suffer from diarrhea; that�s
one of the more common diseases, and that comes from a lack of clean,
pipe-borne water.
Ibe:� [cuts in]
Typhoid is very common these days.
Dr. Ikejiani:� I know typhoid is common and it kills a lot
of people too in Nigeria. That�s due to lack of clean pipe-borne water. A
great deal of things in Nigeria should change. But unless you change certain
conditions these diseases will exist and nothing can be done. [Sighs] I cry for
Nigeria, I swear, because they should know better. Even
without international assistance. They have enough knowledgeable and educated
people to know what to do but they are not doing it.
The
Committee: The problem of fake
drugs and materials has been a perennial problem in the Nigerian Health System.
What can we do to solve this problem?
Dr. Ikejiani:� We can look at what India has done. They have a successful pharmaceutical
industry, and they produce medications (generic) that are affordable. In 1961
we started the Eastern Nigeria Pharmaceutical Corporation. There was no money.
We decided to use cotton that was produced locally, and cheaply, to make gauze,
cotton balls, bandages, and sanitary pads. All that effort went by the wayside.
I invited Pfizer to come to Nigeria� I was then the Medical Director of Pfizer laboratories.
They made recommendations�nothing was done (Sigh). You see�we need committed
leadership for things to change�
Ibe and the Committee: What are the major obstacles to improving the
health of the nation?
Dr. Ikejiani:� How can you cure typhoid when there is no
running water? It�s impossible to do those things without certain, necessary
amenities. How can you cure diseases when there is inconsistent supply of
electricity? How can you reach the sick when there are no good roads�.I think
it�s difficult for a nation to grow unless the leaders change; unless you
change the constituency of Nigeria, you change the Nigerian apparatus. That
means the type of government in Nigeria is not the type of government we [need]. Nigeria cannot progress unless it has a true
confederation. That is the only way that will change Nigeria.
Ibe:� What will
it take to develop the health sector in Nigeria?
Dr. Ikejiani:� It will depend on the leadership. In this
country
[Canada], diseases like typhoid and so forth were cured by
treated pipe-borne water. It did more than any other thing in curing diseases �
pipe borne water. We don�t have it in Nigeria. How can we do magic? We have AIDS now in Nigeria. It�s spreading. It�s spreading like wild fire in
our country. Do people know about it, do they study it? Do they understand? I
don�t think they do. These things require knowledge, community. We are not
doing that in Nigeria. Who�s doing that? It will take time, a different
type of leadership. The people we have now are not thinking about Nigeria. They are incapable of thinking about what to do
to improve the country other than to make money�.
Improving the Transportation
Sector
Ibe:� Drawing
from your experience as a former chairman of the Nigerian Railway Corporation,
do you think that it will be possible to recapture the golden age of the
railway system when you presided over its operation -- that very efficiently
linked the east, west and north in a quite dependable form of transportation;
can that system be revitalized in Nigeria today?
Dr. Ikejiani:� A lot has changed since then. If you think of
building a railway from Lagos
to Enugu or Umuahia, one has to
ask what will make that particular route financially productive and cost
effective. But, we don�t transport coal any longer. Railway is a viable
proposition if you routinely transport heavy loads like coal, oil �then it can
make money. The transportation of passengers�now that is a different case...
You see, the railway is not meant for the sole transportation of passengers.
Any railway that carries only passengers runs at a loss. In other countries
they are closing down railways even though it�s useful for long distance travel
like from here [Ottawa] to Vancouver and so forth.
Ibe:� In the
heydays of the railway system in Nigeria, then, sir; how did it achieve its admirable level
of efficiency? What did it move in terms of transportation, and how did the
railway help in the development of the country at that time?
Dr. Ikejiani:� Don�t forget that at that time there were few
cars and fewer modes of public transportation. People in the east, for example,
had to travel home by railway. When I traveled abroad, I went by railway from Enugu to Minna, then to Kaduna and on to Lagos. That was the only means of transport that was
real, safe. But now you can go by road anywhere. There are transportation
vehicles able to carry everything now. The experts of transport have to sit
down and consider how they will build a railway that would be useful to Nigeria, and not simply build a
railroads.
We
have a railway going from Port Harcourt to Jebba. That was a good railway at the
time. But there�s not much it carried. We retained coal-driven engines. But
that�s wasteful. That�s all we were using then, instead of diesel. But today
there�s no longer any coal; we are no longer mining coal for the purpose of
running the railway system. And now other countries have gone into electricity!
Resuscitating the railway system will require extensive planning and expense
and a leadership that understands its worth!
Globalization and Nigeria�s Future
Ibe:� Talk about
some of the aspects of globalization that might affect Nigeria�s development today, and in the future.
Dr. Ikejiani:� They tell you that there is need for
globalization. Fine, but what does �globalization� mean? Do you know the water
for giving injections � sterile water � we don�t have it in Nigeria even in the twenty-first century! All the fluids
given to patients in hospitals, we don�t have in Nigeria. We don�t make bandages in Nigeria. So how can the country develop?
We
talk about globalization - the government voted so many millions of dollars in
support of AIDS programs. But, then, the money really goes into the coffers of other
countries! They bring the drugs. If
foreign countries want to help Nigeria in its fight to prevent the AIDS pandemic, which
drugs do you think they will offer? Drugs made by them, and imported into Nigeria. And who will pay?
Globalization
won�t save Nigeria. Several countries in the eastern world developed
without globalization. To think that the answer is globalization, I don�t agree
that [it] will save us. I think what will save Nigeria is when Nigerians make up their minds to take up
their country, just like Asian countries. Unless they do that, globalization
will not save them.
Ibe:� If we could
roll the clock backward, what are some of the historical points that could have
stood a particular course in Nigeria�s development�?
Dr. Ikejiani:� [cuts in]�I think when we had the three
regions [eastern, western and northern regions]. We should have maintained
that. As a matter of fact, the progress made at that time has not been
surpassed up to now.
Ibe:� Let�s talk
about Canada, a country that you are familiar with. What�s the
relationship between Canada and Nigeria?
Dr. Ikejiani:� Canada has done a lot for Nigeria. They wanted good [diplomatic] relationship. I
tried to invite the speaker of the Nigerian Senate to come to Canada and study the Canadian system, but it didn�t work.
Canada wanted it, but then Nigeria messed up. I don�t think there is any relationship
now. There are a lot of scholarships various Canadian universities offer
foreign students, but I don�t know of any political link Nigeria has with Canada.
I
know that many people who are members of the Canadian Senate have gone to Nigeria trying to establish business. But as I tell you --
even if you wanted to promote business in Nigeria, you�ll find that there is no water, no electricity;
visitors to the country find that there are bad roads, and that telephones do
not work. And so, they won�t establish any business because they will lose. I
think that Nigeria will do well to study the Canadian system [of
government], visit the country and establish a relationship with the Canadian
government to see how Canada can assist in the development of what [Nigeria] wants, if indeed they want a true federation.
Learn about the history of Canada. The country went through various stages; they had
various leaders. That�s the only way Nigeria can be helped.
Ibe:� Is that why
you were trying to arrange for the President of the Nigerian Senate to come and
understudy the Canadian system?
Dr. Ikejiani:� I wanted him to come here, and see how the Canadian
people work. A lot of people are saying that they want the Canadian Senate
abolished. They�ve talked about it for more than 50 years, but still the Senate
has not been abolished. I wanted an intelligent Nigerian, who was then speaker
of the Nigerian Senate, to come here to Canada; it might be that through that way our people
would learn a lot. The Nigerian doesn�t know anything about the Canadian
government. They should know about their parliamentary form of government, and
how it works. They should know that every Monday, the ministers that run the
government and the prime minister are challenged by the House asking a lot of
questions�.That�s how a government should be.�����������
The Historic January 15,
1966
Ibe:� Is it true
that the coup of January 15, 1966 was plotted to make Ironsi head of state, and tilt
power in Nigeria in favor of the Igbos?
Dr. Ikejiani:� No, the coup plotters didn�t like Ironsi.
Ironsi just managed to escape. He was lucky. To make the Igbo scapegoats of
that [military coup] is nonsense; I�m telling you the truth. I have a story
about the coup here in [my soon-to-be-published autobiography], told to me by Nwaobosi who participated in the coup. I can tell you the
whole story about the coup.
Ibe:� But then the
countercoup of July, 1966 would result in Ironsi�s
death�
Dr. Ikejiani:� Oh yes, because they believed that the Igbo
were responsible [for the first coup] and the BBC was blaming the Igbo.
Ibe:� A lot of
people looking at this date and the involvement of the young Igbo military
officers could not but argue that Igbo were doing it for their own purpose?
Dr. Ikejiani:� How can they be doing it for a purpose? The
scapegoat[ing] of the Igbo in the revolution [of
1966], is false. It�s propaganda. It�s not true.
Ibe:� So, why did
they do it?
Dr. Ikejiani:� Nigeria was corrupt. Nigeria was bad and that�s what they thought was best for Nigeria. That�s why they did it. The army people, when
they carry out a coup, do they have to give you any reason? They did it because
they thought it was right; but if they had consulted the politicians that would
have been different. But they didn�t succeed in the coup�.They couldn�t kill
[Michael Okpara]; Ifeajuna
went to Enugu and hid. After killing the Prime Minister [Tafawa Balewa] and Okotieboh they drove to Enugu and stayed at Enugu.
Ibe:� So, for the
record again, the military coup of January 15, 1966 was not carried out by young Igbo officers to tilt
the power structure in Nigeria in favor of the Igbo?
Dr. Ikejiani:� How can they tilt the power? The Igbo were
doing all right. The Igbo were in a good position. How would they tilt the
power? Zik was the president. I think that he knew
that there would be a coup. Otherwise why would he leave? He went to Haiti.
The Nigerian Civil War
Ibe:� Where were
you during the civil war? Talk about the things you did, either at home or away
from home.
Dr. Ikejiani:� I was in Nigeria during the civil war. I was practically every day
with Ojukwu. I visited abroad; I visited the United States; I visited the whole of the West Indies with Professor Ezera. I
visited Haiti with Chukwuma Azikiwe. It was because of me that they [Haiti] gave recognition to Biafra. I was appointed in the rehabilitation commission [of Biafra] because we did most work of the children who were suffering from
kwashiorkor. We arranged for them to go abroad for treatment and stayed till
the end of the civil war. During the intervals, I was sent abroad. I visited Greece. I went to Yamoussoukro [Ivory Coast]. I went to Gabon. I visited the whole of the West Indies. I was in the United States. I visited Canada. At the end of the war I was in Lisbon [Portugal]. I was in Lisbon when the war ended and I decided not to come back.
Ibe:� Officially
you were one of a number of Biafran ambassadors then, or did you have a
specific portfolio?
Dr. Ikejiani:� No, I will call it Ambassador
Plenipotentiary. When the leader, Ojukwu, sent you abroad, you became
ambassador of wherever you were assigned. That�s what I was. I was not
officially referred to as an ambassador abroad, although I was Ambassador
Plenipotentiary when I traveled to one of these countries.
Ibe:� From your
vantage point of going abroad, speaking on behalf of Biafra and Ojukwu at that time, what was the general feeling of other
countries on the fate of Biafra, which was fighting a war of secession?
Dr. Ikejiani:� Most countries I visited supported us � most
countries. I visited Haiti, they gave us recognition. I visited the whole of West
Indian islands. You have to know the history of Jamaica, Barbados, Guyana, to realize that they are small, except Guyana which is quite big. But there were a lot of
problems with the Indian population. And Jamaica had a lot of problems. Their recognition of us
would have been meaningless. I would say that my going abroad showed me that
the whole of the black world supported us. Greece supported us, too.
Ibe:� What did
these countries see in Biafra?
Dr. Ikejiani:� They saw a legacy of Black people who could
rise -- potentially rise -- above the stupor where they were. They saw what we
were able to do in the war, the way we were organized, and they were very
impressed. As matter of fact, Portugal was telling us that our people were better
organized than the Portuguese territories where they were. Greece was quite impressed with what we were doing. But
this came to nothing because we lost the war.
Ibe:� With all
these things going for Biafra, why did Biafra still
lose the war?
Dr. Ikejiani:� We lost the war because no large country
supported us. The British government was against us, Russia was against us openly. America was going up and down; they never really supported
us.
Ibe:� How about Canada?
Dr. Ikejiani:� Canada didn�t really recognize us, but they gave us a
little support. Sometimes I would come here to get a visa to go to the United States instead of going anywhere else. So Canada supported us, but it was the time of Trudeau, and
Trudeau was sympathetic but that was all they could do. If Britain was against us, Canada couldn�t openly support us. So we lost the support
of the great powers. And it was obvious that with the recognition of African
countries which we had, with the recognition of Haiti, no other countries recognized us. That�s why we
couldn�t get any equipment to fight. Our soldiers had to give up.�
Ibe:� It�s
obvious why Britain would not support the break up of its former
colony. Why would the other strong countries like Canada, Russia and the United States not look favorably at the secessionist war of Biafra?
Dr. Ikejiani:� Don�t forget that at that time Russia had the whole of the Russian empire intact. They
weren�t separated. So they were totally against a war of secession. Russia was totally against us. As a matter of fact, Russian
planes were used in bombing us. If Britain did not support us; if Russia did not support us, and if the United States was [undecided], we couldn�t get any support. We
had full support from four African countries, but that was not enough to give
us the independence we wanted.
Ibe:� Looking
back now, what have the Igbo people and the rest of southeastern Nigeria, learned from that war of secession?
Dr. Ikejiani:� I don�t think they�ve learned anything. First
of all, now they have oil. It�s almost impossible to ask them to be a part of
any Igbo cause.
Ibe:� Zik was opposed to Ojukwu waging the Nigeria-Biafra civil
war�.
Dr. Ikejiani:� [cuts in]�he wasn�t opposed to the civil war
until later�
Ibe:� �he wasn�t opposed
to the civil war until later; so initially what was [Zik�s]
feeling?
Dr. Ikejiani:� His feeling was that when a leader of a
nation wants to go to war, he should consult people. Primarily Ojukwu should
have consulted Zik. Secondly, he should have
consulted [Michael] Okpara [premier of eastern Nigeria]. Thirdly he should have consulted other leaders.
The only people that Ojukwu consulted were [Louis] Mbanefo and [Francis] Ibiam. I have Ibiam�s letter
here. It was a great mistake. I told Ojukwu [to] invite these people [and
inform them]. He told me they would compromise. That�s what he said. He didn�t
invite them, never asked them questions. That�s not how to lead. That�s what
led us into trouble. There are many areas we would have compromised. Ojukwu did
not compromise. That�s one of the mistakes we made in the war.
Ibe:� What were
some of the other mistakes?
Dr. Ikejiani:� I don�t want to mention them�.When Okpara went to Abyssinia, he
should have
compromised.
We didn�t. There are two or three areas where he should have compromised�.We
were bringing one planeload of ammunition from Israel every week; one planeload of weapons from Tanzania every week, but we couldn�t carry tanks. If we had
a boat that brought tanks, we could have fought. The tank we captured was when
[Nigerian soldiers] came to Abagana trying to bypass
to Nnewi without going through Onitsha; we captured one tank. We made a lot of mistakes
during the war. It wasn�t that Zik opposed the war.
Anybody with sense would consider the war. War is destructive. There�s no
country that went to war that didn�t suffer, not one. When we went to war, we
destroyed everything we had. That�s true.
Ibe:� Many of us,
Nigerians, do not have the advantage of being so close to some of these
historical figures you mentioned � Zik, Ojukwu, among
many others. What do you think are Odumegwu Ojukwu�s
reflections these days regarding his decision to wage a war of secession?
Dr. Ikejiani:� He did not go to war. We were attacked and he
replied. He did not compromise at any time; that was the mistake he made. What
he thinks now I don�t know. He came back [from exile in Ivory Coast] and joined the National Party of Nigeria NPN. I don�t think that was brilliant. Second, the man who
fought a war in Nigeria thinks he can run as president. He picked a
northerner, the brother of the Emir of Kano. I think
that�s wrong. What does he want to run for president for, for what? What does
he hope to achieve? I don�t know what he�s thinking that he has done, but it�s
unfortunate that we had to go to war, that we did not compromise. That has put
the Igbo in the position they are in today.
The Igbo Question in Nigeria
Ibe:� Can there
be a united voice in Igbo land today, any more than there is one united voice
speaking the Jewish experience all over the world?
Dr. Ikejiani:� Oh yes, there will be one united voice.
We�ve
not tried it. Even when we�ve tried it, we�ve not tried it well. Look at Ohaneze.
Ohaneze could be a great Igbo union, but Ohaneze now is only known at Enugu. Igbo Union was known in every village. Every town
union was a member of Igbo Union. If Ohaneze says by edict that they are united
in Nigeria and they want every Igbo organization to listen to
what they say here without which they will not recognize them, all these
dispersant, various groups will disappear. Without unity of the Igbo at home
there will be no unity here [in the Diaspora].
Ibe:� The Igbo are
among the most democratic of all peoples around the world. They hardly speak
with one voice�.
Dr. Ikejiani:� No, no I do not agree. When we had Igbo
Union, we spoke with one voice, and every Igbo man listened. Why has it
changed? Why have the Igbo people changed? Is it because of the war? [The war]
has not changed the Igbo�If the Igbo are united in Nigeria today, Nigeria would be a different place, a more democratic
place, a better place.
Disclaimer:
The views expressed in the interview are not necessarily those of the Chinua Achebe Foundation. The Achebe foundation, an intellectual and cultural
organization, believes in the right of every Nigerian to express their opinion.