Daily Independent Online.
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Thursday, August 12, 2004.
I am not a sell-out, says Ihonvbere
Some of his colleagues in the human rights and pro-democracy
movement regard him as a sell-out. They also claim that he was hired
specifically to attack his constituency. But, Prof Julius Ihonvbere, Special
Adviser to President Olusegun Obasanjo on Policy Implementation and Monitoring,
says there is no truth in the assertion. If at all, he argues that his joining
the government is in tandem with his philosophy of life, explaining that what
he has learnt in one year of his appointment exceeds his previous knowledge
outside the system. He spoke to Group Politics Editor, Felix Ofou about his
experience in government and other burning issues. Excerpts:
Some of your colleagues in the human rights
and pro-democracy community believe that you sold out by agreeing to serve
President Olusegun Obasanjo. Is this true?
First, I went into the
government of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, a government of my own country,
a government that would change the lives, dreams, perspectives and feelings of
my own people. As a political scientist, I know that if you are not in power,
you can’t change anything. You can write, and I have done that: 12 books,
over 90 learned articles, over 200 conference, research and policy papers. They
might have influenced some thinking, but in real terms, they change nothing.
Because the real issue is: Do you control resources? Are you at the table where
decisions are being made to have the opportunity to put in a word or two for
the marginalized, for the oppressed and the deprived? I took a decision long
ago; that I would not work for a military government. And I never did. But for
a democratic government, I would work. Even if the arrangement was that of an
illiberal democratic system, it is much better than an oppressive, repressive,
exploitative, non-accountable, insensitive and corrupt military dictatorship.
So, my going into government is a furtherance of my own belief in the struggle.
I am leftist by ideology or inclination, but I also know from reading my
leftist literature that when you are at the extreme, you get nothing. You have
to adjust your strategies to deal with the realities and thinking of your
people. Otherwise, you will be leading and there will be no followers.
Secondly, I resolved to join the government to use my position for the good of
my people. It is easier, better, more productive and more reasonable to be in
there speaking for the people than outside making a lot of noise that has very
little effect.
Thirdly, as an
individual, and this is just the truth, I also needed that exposure of
government. I had been in the university: I taught at the Obafemi Awolowo
University (OAU), Ife; I taught at UNIPORT, I taught at Olabisi Onabanjo
University, Ago-Iwoye. I taught in Houston and Texas, and I taught at the
University of Toronto. I have written, I have attended conferences and
participated in extensive research. I have consulted for international
organizations; I worked for the Ford Foundation, which is the largest
philanthropic organization in the world. I have been in the human rights
movement, in the pro-democracy movement at every level imaginable; I have been
at the barricades. I have been a student’s union leader, I have been a
labour leader: I was secretary of ASUU, vice chairman and chairman of ASUU. The
real issue was that I needed to know what was going on on the other side, to
acquire, real, practical engagement of the policies and politics of government.
So, for those who think that my going to government is a sell-out, I think they
have a very narrow vision and understanding of the realities of the struggle.
The government belongs to all Nigerians; nobody owns it. Irrespective of what
anybody may feel, we have the democratic right to go in there and make our own
impact.
How would you react to the assertion that
you were hired by President Obasanjo specifically to attack the human rights
and pro-democracy community?
I want to assure you
that the President has never, even till now, had one cause (and I stake my
reputation and life on this) to say attack your constituency or go deal with
them. Never. In fact, at every opportunity, he takes pleasure in calling me “Wahab
Baba”, which was my guerilla name, my war name on Radio Kudirat. And he
has done this several times in the presence of Governor Ahmed Tinubu of Lagos
State, hailing me as “Wahab Baba”, “The World Wahab
Baba”. Our people have this fixation on how bad government is, and how
bad anybody in government could be. But, it’s not the truth. I have never
sat down to discuss with the government, how to deal with the human rights
community. It’s not necessary. So, those who think that President
Obasanjo made me an adviser to attack the human rights community are actually
not true democrats. They are not the genuine activists. Because if they know
me, they understand me, they understand where I am coming from; my background,
my record and contributions and to the struggle for the liberation of Nigeria,
then they would know that nobody can unleash me on human rights community.
So, why have you been very critical of the
human rights community and the Nigeria Labour Congress?
You see, the only person
who can tell you the truth is a member of the family, because I have nothing to
gain or lose. I didn’t go into government because I wanted to make money;
I was comfortable; through hard work, personal savings, personal creativity and
productivity. I went in there (government) because I have specific goals and I
believed that I could make a difference. And I believe that I am doing that
very well. The truth is that the comments I have made are based on the
thorough, holistic and dialectical understanding of the Nigerian reality,
having been at every level imaginable in the struggle. I was a student union
leader. I was a leader when I was a university teacher. I was a member of the
pro-democracy movement. I was a member of the human rights community, and I
still am. I went into exile; I spent over 11 years. I was banned from Nigeria.
I couldn’t come in here. And I know how much of my personal funds I spent
in the advancement of the cause of democracy. I was one of those who founded
the organization: Nigerians in America. I was one of the leaders of the United
Democratic Front of Nigeria. I am still the vice chairman, Professor Wole
Soyinka is the chairman. I have no apologies for this. I was a core commentator
on Radio Kudirat. Everyday, every time the radio was on air. I have no apologies
for that. But, the situation has changed. There is a whole new dynamic in the
system. There are new institutions, new discourses, new struggles, new
political engagements, new efforts at re-modeling, reconstructing and
repositioning our struggle to benefit the people and do away with the
idiosyncrasies and mediocrity of the past. If anybody cannot recognize this,
then he must be living in space. You cannot use the same language, the same
method, the same institutions, the same mechanisms of fighting a military
dictator in operating a democratic system. You don’t need to belong to
the ruling party. You don’t need to like the president or the minister.
But, the truth of the matter is that Nigeria is not on the brink, is not on the
verge of collapse. It is not the worst governed country in Africa or in the
world. The government is in charge. Our economy is moving for the better. If
only people would read, if they would ask questions, if they would try to find
out the reality, if they would try to engage those in authority, they would
know that this is not the same Nigeria as five years ago, I was in Lagos then.
You couldn’t come out to a nightclub at night. Today, you can drive round
Lagos at night. The armed robbery situation has reduced drastically. Security
has improved. I was here, and I knew many people from my village who were
unemployed. Today, many of them are working. I was here and I saw the
government in the first dispensation (1999 - 2003) and I know the
difference today. I think I know what we have done since this second
dispensation of the Obasanjo administration. I know what we are doing and what
we plan to do. And I have every confidence that we shall succeed. So, this
whole talk about the comments that I made are neither here nor there. In any
case, what comments did I make? I
made basically three comments. The first was that my community - the
pro-democracy and human rights community need to rethink, reorganize,
reconstruct, re-conceptualize and reposition themselves to take advantage of the
opportunities or advantages of the democratic option. If we are not doing this,
then we are irrelevant. Secondly, I said that what I have learnt in the last
one year of being in government, about the politics of Nigeria, is more than
what I knew in more than 20 years of being outside it. That in no way meant
that I do not respect what I have learnt. It simply means that I was seeing
Nigeria from a different prism, from a different angle. There are people who
make a lot of noise in the day and in the night come and beg you. There are
also people who claim to be fighting for unity, but in their communities work
for disunity. Institutions that claim to be working for the economic
development of Nigeria, but in reality are working for the underdevelopment and
slavery of Nigeria. I have seen people in close quarters - policies at
close quarters. I know the headlines in the newspapers most times mean very
little to those in government because they do not capture the politics and
engineering dynamics and negotiations that led to those policies. What we see
is just the announcement of the policies. As the President’s
speechwriter, I know the extent of work that goes in between him and I to get a
speech out. His concern for the underprivileged of what people could think or
say, his concern for the response from the international community, concern for
delivering the goods to the people; I know all these. It’s not because I
work for Obasanjo that I am saying this. I didn’t go there begging;
nobody recommended me for that position. The President saw what I could do,
what I could deliver and he invited me to join this government. And I was happy
to do so. But, we must give each other a chance. We must try to understand each
other. There is no time where government sits down to say how do we make life
difficult for Nigerians? Such a time does not exist. It means that politics is
all about engagement, dialogue, and consultations by involving the people; give
and take. If we fail to subscribe to this in the context of a changing world,
then we must have squandered opportunities of the past and already wasting the
future as well.
Recently, the South-South governors
petitioned the President over the seeming imposition of Godspower Ake as the
PDP national vice chairman for the zone. What has become of the petition?
I think the issue, for
which we must be pleased, is that that is the beauty of democracy. Those who
thought that PDP was a one-way machine now know better. That a party is
structured and positioned to accommodate and tolerate different opinions and
what has happened was that somebody died - may God bless his soul, and A
says it’s our turn to take over. And another group says no, we have not
expired our tenure. My belief is that there should be dialogue, consultations
and cooperation, because both sides seem to have a case. Unless we provide the
platform of a neutral body listening, analyzing and taking positions, we may be
repeating the mistakes and avoidable pains of the past. But, I think the matter
is being looked into by a neutral body and the new decision would soon be out.
Is it true that Obasanjo ordered PDP to
swear in Ake?
It is not true, because
it is not part of the President’s responsibility to decide who is the
party’s vice chairman. There is a national chairman, there is the NEC,
there is the NWC; structures of the PDP that have responsibility for such
decisions.
•To be continued
tomorrow
