Daily Independent Online.
*
Tuesday, August 24, 2004.
Those running our parties are not disciplined - Saraki
There is no doubt that one politician in the country that can
lay claim to being a political godfather is Dr Olusola Saraki. The man, widely
regarded as the patriarch of Kwara State politics, has many feathers in his
cap. Yet, there is no gainsaying the fact that the past four civilian governors
of the state got there through his auspices. The current feat he demonstrated
at last year’s general election saw his son, Bukola, becoming the
governor of Kwara State and his daughter, Gbemisola, winning a senatorial seat.
And contrary to speculations, Saraki is not about to call it quit with
politics. He argued that politics is too important a game to be left to
mediocres, sending signals that he might well give the presidency a shot. That,
however, according to him, depends on the outcome of the Peoples Democratic
Party (PDP) convention in 2005. Saraki, who was the Senate leader during the
Second Republic, was in town last week on the invitation of a faction of the
PDP in Lagos State, ostensibly for him to broker a truce between the factions. He
had a session with journalists after meeting with the factional leaders, where
he spoke on the indiscipline that has characterised the operations of the PDP;
why victory will continue to elude the party in the state; how his son comes to
him for advice on crucial issues, and many more. Assistant Political Editor, Habib Aruna, was there. Excerpts:
Explaining why
he came to Lagos
I have come to bury
Caesar and not to praise him, the deeds that men do live after them. I am here
as a member of this great party (Peoples Democratic Party). Unfortunately,
there is still a lot to be done in our party to make it the greatest. When I
heard about the problem within the party and the leaders visited me seeking for
my assistance in getting their complaints to the headquarters so that justice
can be done within the Lagos State PDP, I felt sorry that this was going on and
I knew now why PDP lost Lagos State.
Unless the problems
are solved, I cannot see how PDP would win Lagos State. Just last week, our
President, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo, said he would want PDP to win the state.
With what I have seen and heard, I do not see how PDP can win Lagos State. But
I want to assure you that I am carrying the message across to Abuja this
evening and let the party leaders know that things are not well in Lagos State.
I will like to urge the leaders, especially Chief Olorunfunmi Bashorun, to be
patient as they have been. In politics you must have a lot of patience. Please
continue to have patience because glory for victory will be the glory of your
efforts.
I assure you that I
am with you. I want to declare that in the sun and in the rain I am with you so
that we can win Lagos State. I have listened to the Bashorun group’s side
of the story and I would like to listen to the side of others. But whatever it
is, I am going to acquaint the leaders in Abuja that they need to look at it
again, because there is no way you can win any election if there is disunity
within the rank and file of the party. My wish and desire is to see that peace
reigns in Lagos PDP so that come 2007 we shall have a PDP government in the
state.
So, Olusola Saraki
is a man of his words. I promise you I am taking this matter to the leaders in
Abuja to let them know that things are not well in Lagos State. I will also try
and see the Minister of Works and talk to him, he must come back home, this is
where God is. Please the leaders should do what they can to see that unity
reigns when it comes. It is true that today we haven’t got a party system
in Nigeria because the parties are just doing as they like. For progress,
stability and peace to reign, we must have party discipline. The party must be
supreme. Once the party is supreme, there will be unity, discipline, progress
and there will be peace. We have no peace in Nigeria and I can assure you that
PDP has all the ingredients to bring peace, stability and progress to this
great country of ours. And by the time the party goes for its convention by
2005, I believe we shall achieve supremacy of the party. Just as Chief Bashorun
said, during the National Party of Nigeria (NPN) days, where I was a member,
the party has the majority members in the Senate. NPN has 36 members out of the
95 members. In the House of Representatives, there were 450 and NPN has 157
members. You could see that we have the majority and yet no single crisis. I
was the leader of the Senate at that time. There was no crisis and there was
stability and progress until Buhari came and throw us out. So, we must go back
to an era where the party is supreme so that we can have justice and peace. And
the people will benefit from being members of the party. We used to have caucus
meetings every Monday. President Shehu Shagari was a member while Chief Adisa
Akinloye was the chairman of the caucus and Shagari would say, ‘The party
put me here, tell me what you want me to do.’ Shagari is not here but
this was what he was all the time saying. We must go back to that if we want
peace, if we want progress and justice to reign within our party. So, I want to
assure you the Lagos PDP that I will take this to the national secretariat.
Don’t fight because I don’t believe in violence. I believe that we
should use the time for how to improve the well-being of Nigerians. There are
millions of Nigerians today that have nothing to eat. Not that they don’t
want to eat but it is just not available. And it’s a shame that in a big
country like Nigeria people don’t have anything to eat. Look at the level
of education today; look at our heath; look at our roads; look at the security.
By now all these things should have been solved. It can only happen if we have
peace and justice. And I am sure PDP is in a position to give leadership to
this great country.
One of the major
problems of the party in Lagos State is the perceived maginalisation of some
members in the sharing of spoils. And although you promised to speak to the
other group, how do you intend to resolve this?
I said I came here
because they cried to me that there is crisis within the party and they will
like me to look into it. Their complaint was that the party hierarchy does not
understand the magnitude of the problem within the Lagos State PDP and they
believe that I have the links at all levels to urge the other leaders of the
party to step in. And I said I would like to come and see for myself and hear
their grievances. So, as you said, now I have heard their side. And about the
32 boards appointment, they gave them how they were distributed. Now I am going
to Abuja to see the party hierarchy, to see the President and let them
understand the need for peace to reign in Lagos State. I heard that sometime
last month, they called the two sides but they didn’t listen to them very
well. Now that I know more about the crisis, I will now go to Abuja and meet
the party leadership about the crisis and the need for them to look at it again
so that peace and unity can return to PDP in Lagos State. As you said, it would
be wrong for me to look at one side and conclude, no, no, we don’t judge
like that in politics. You ought to hear the two sides and also there must be
give and take if they are to win this state. I have heard their side and I am
going to listen to the other side and also talk to the leaders. Luckily, they
have the time now because the convention is coming up next year; there is
plenty of time for us to have them united.
What do you
think is responsible for the crises that have rocked the PDP these past years?
My experience is
that those in charge of the party in Abuja don’t seem to understand the
intricacies of party politics. First come first serve, that’s what they
do. I give you an example. In Kwara State last week, I was away when I heard that
the chairman of the party has been suspended because somebody wrote to them
that he took the party to court whereas it was the man that was taken to court.
And in the process of defending himself, he was suspended. They did not hear
him, they suspended him and asked him to come to Abuja and defend himself. I
think people that are running the party for now haven’t got the
experience, so that is how these things come.
How do you
reconcile the crises with President Olusegun Obasanjo’s statement that
PDP will capture Lagos State in the next election?
Any leader will
want to win elections and the President would want to win Lagos State. We only
need to advise him that the best way to win Lagos State is to settle this
crisis. That is how they can win the state because this gathering is
grassroots. If this thing is not settled, I can’t see how they will win
Lagos State. I am talking from experience; they are telling the truth by
putting the facts on the table. I have been in this game for 40 years. If you
want to win you must have discipline, otherwise you cannot win. Because at the
end of the election, you look at yourself you will not find anybody there.
Another divisive
issue within the party is support for the presidential ambition of Babangida
and Atiku. It was even speculated that you are in Lagos to garner support for
Atiku, how far is this true?
I can assure you
this is not true. To me, it is too early for anybody to start talking about
2007 elections, too early to do that. And I ask this same question when I met
the leaders inside that we should do something for our people in the state. For
the past five years now, nothing has been done for our people. No roads; no
light; no water. The only thing that concerns us is to see our people in Lagos
State benefit from the government.
So, I am not part
of that and they have assured me that they are not part of that. All they are
interested in is how to win Lagos State, and to win the state, they must be
united. Support for Atiku or Babangida, I think, would come later. I have told
them that I am not in it; all that I am interested in is for us to win Lagos
State. So, the best thing is to have unity in the party before we start to talk
about who will be the president. Politics is for the common man and woman and
for now they are suffering. Those in the villages, at the grassroots, are
suffering. So there must be unity before you talk of supporting a particular
candidate.
Many politicians
have expressed fears about the 2007 general elections. As a top politician,
what are your fears?
Oh, my fear is that
there might be violence. Unless we really come together, I don’t see how
2007 can be a reality. I want to see a party that is supreme. In other words,
put the right peg in the right hole. Today, those that are running the party
are not supposed to be in charge, they haven’t got the experience to run
a party. Once you have the right people in charge; those who are experienced,
who know what to do, the crises would be resolved. In 1999, I was a
presidential aspirant of the All Peoples Party (APP) in Kaduna. I knew I was
going to win the ticket but a day before, the thing was disorganised and I
packed my bags and left. I don’t think it was a do-or-die thing. But for
now, there is no discipline in all the political parties; everybody is just
doing what he likes. As a result, when you go to meetings, you cannot avoid the
issue of violence and at the end of the day, who suffers? Government suffers.
So, I think what we need to do now is to make sure PDP is a party that is supreme.
If it is supreme, there will be discipline; if there is discipline there will
be progress and if there is progress there will be enough for all the members.
Then we can decide who is going to be our president. So, the problem is
because, as I said, we don’t have a round peg in a round hole. It’s
not only in PDP, all the political parties today have similar problems. It is
unlike what happened between 1979 and 1983 before the army threw us out. At
that time, as I said before, the party was supreme. In other words, if there is
any problem within the party, like in the NPN, the state will try to resolve
it. If they cannot resolve it, then they report to the headquarters and if the
headquarters cannot resolve it, then it goes to the caucus. Once it gets to the
caucus, that is the final. At that caucus, the chairman would table it and a
panel would be set up to investigate it. When the panel reports back, a
decision is then taken. After that, you must obey.
So, what we are
saying is that once the party is supreme, those who work for the party will
benefit from it. But today nobody is benefiting, that is why we must go back to
the old days and that is where we want to be at the end of the 2005 convention.
You were quoted
to have said you would be quitting politics after last year’s elections,
why did you change your mind?
No, no. I
didn’t say that. What I said was that every actor must leave the stage
when the ovation is loud. And I said that I don’t know if the last
victory in Kwara was the loudest, I don’t know. The success of my
daughter as a senator and of my son as the governor, I don’t know whether
it is the loudest. You know what is happening now, will you say some of us
should fold up and leave politics? No, you still need people with experience. For
example, they know that we know what it takes to restore peace, that was why
Chief Bashorun and his group came to us for us to help them restore peace in
Lagos State and that’s why I am here to use the experience to talk to the
people in Abuja; to talk to the President about what is going on in Lagos
State. You can see that these are the people at the grassroots, and don’t
think anybody can win the state without bringing all these people together.
That’s why I am here.
Should we then
conclude that you might contest the presidency in 2007?
I am waiting to see
what happens at the convention in 2005 to decide.
How do you see
the current perceived presidential aspirants who are mostly retired generals?
I think going by
the constitution, they have the right to aspire to any position in the land.
But it is our right to decide whether they are the best for us or not. I think
they have the right, it is for us to now say have they got the pedigree or the
experience. Whether, as I used to say, they can bend the sapling but cannot
bend a tree. When a tree becomes a big tree, you cannot bend it, but when it is
still growing, you can bend it the way you like. Whether a man who has been in
the military for 40 years of his life is the one you want as a president or
governor, it is for us to decide when the time comes.
What is your
comment on the abrupt removal of Senator Ajadi from the Senate and your
continued domination of Kwara politics?
You see, the common
man’s and woman’s interest is my interest. I like to see everybody
happy, especially the women. They are the strength of any political party all
over the world. They are more committed and hard working. It all boils down to
what I have been saying; have the right person in the right place.
Unfortunately, we are playing politics of money and not of service.
We are not playing
politics of development and how the people will benefit. You can’t go to
Kwara with a lot of money and say you want to win election. It is not possible,
when the people have no water; they have no road. They may take your money but
they will come to me and say, ‘Where do we go?’ And I will say to
them, ‘Go this way.’ So in this country, we are playing politics of
money and not that of policy and programmes. What happened at the end of the
day? Babangida locked us up saying he was playing new-breed politics. You
can’t do that. Politics is about experience, there are people in the
United States Senate who are over 80 years and some in the House of
Representatives have been there for more than 30 years. But Babangida made a
law at that time that all old politicians must not contest elections. Because
he said I installed Shaba Lafiaji as governor, I was detained in Epe for six
months. This is the kind of thing we need to correct, because I don’t
want to repeat history, I want to make history. That is what is happening to us
in Nigeria, a school certificate holder suddenly becomes a councilor, earning
more than N100,000 a month, that is wrong. That is very, very wrong. The next
thing he would want to do is to buy a car or a house. So, we must go back to
the era of service.
Your son has
been in the saddle for the past one year, are you satisfied with his
government?
He started well. He
is not a politician but you can see that he is following my experience of 40
years to make Kwara one of the enviable states in this country. Unfortunately,
I have installed four governors (in Kwara) and they have done badly. And he
(Bukola) did not go there because of money; he went there to work for the
people of the state.
How often does
he come for advice?
Yes, he does come. He used to come and ask me, ‘Daddy,
I have this problem.’ During the Olofa thing, dispute about a mosque, I
gave him advice. He phoned now and again to ask me what I think about certain
issues.
