|
Certificate Forgery: I have no point to prove
-Donald Duke
It was the fourth attempt last Saturday to get Cross River State Governor,
Mr. Donald Duke, for an exclusive interview. Three times, he had slipped off at the eleventh hour. The
last effort however paid off last week at the famous Obudu Catttle Ranch Resort
when Jude Chiedozie Nwauzor, cornered him. Initially, when the Commissioner for
Information in the state, Mr. Patrick Ogar, informed him of the idea of an
interview, he tried to, although politely, turn it down. Ogar however insisted and the
governor gave his nod. When he was finally ready for the interview, Duke threw
a joke at the Senior Correspondent:
“Are you not the people that are saying that I don’t have
education. If I go school or I no go school, na ya business. But since you are
here gentleman, I have a big plan for you. In case you don’t know, you
are standing on top of the mountain that is some 1756 meters above sea level
and I will throw you down from here and I will see what you would write in your
next edition”.
Of course, that was a joke. The governor spoke on topical issues ranging from his
alleged certificate forgery to his alleged bid to become the next vice president
of the country. Excerpts:
I would like to start by saying
that I am humbled by your simplicity. Is this the way you are or are you faking
it?
I am faking it… (laugh). I am very arrogant,
cocky and everything. Is that what
you want to write? Governor Duke fakes humility. I know you don’t want to
write that. This is the way I am. It is my life.
For the past few weeks there has been a serious
media attention on you over alleged certificate forgery. Are you distracted by the negative
media attention?
Is it negative? It is not negative. I really doubt if anybody thinks I
don’t have an education or that I forged my certificates. But again, this
is the power of the print media.
The moment you put something in the print people would begin to ask:
could it be true? I have a very well documented educational background. I must
face it because one day as I have done, I may decide to say something; but it
is also not a new thing, it has been on for a while. I had ignored it but they thought they had a fair gain. But
I am not even defending it now, the institutions are defending it, the three
institutions are Ahmadu Bello University, the Law School and the University of
Pensylvania. They have come out
stoutly. So, I needn’t say
anything else because there is no other point to prove.
By training, you are a lawyer. What prepared
you for politics and leadership?
I don’t really know. But from when you look at the journey to where you are, you
can say well, this or that has guided me or prepared me. But the drive has
really been to improve the society. You know, you see a society, you have ideas
and how to improve things; you are driven by that and you know that the path to
achieving that is through politics.
That has really been the motivation. If you say prepared, well
providence may have played a major role because I was a commissioner at the age
of between 30 or 31 and that gave me a good insight and an introduction into the
state because hitherto I had hardly ever been in the state. I grew up in Lagos.
From there, I went into the National Economic Intelligence Committee which also
gave me a good understanding of our nation, you know. If that was preparatory,
I am grateful for it.
But I think what has driven us into politics, and
when I mean us it is because we are a group of persons with this determination
that things can be better than they really are if we decide to make it; we are
all fairly accomplished, so it wasn’t really to make a name; politics is
expensive, so if there is anything it’s not for money. We were really
driven, we were very passionate and idealistic and I still pursue those ideals
because I think they are right.
We met all sorts of distractions. All of a sudden, someone who lost in an
election says you don’t have certificate. Yet, it is not that I schooled in Russia or Poland or
Ukraine. I schooled in Nigeria.
So, of course you have references. I went through the school and the
school went through me, if you know what I mean. I was active in school; I was
a member of the students union executive. While I was social secretary for
instance, the governor of Kaduna State was treasurer the same time Justice Zana
in Bornu State High Court was the president of the union. Justice Balogun, who was then Hanatu
Turundu in the Kaduna judiciary was the vice president. So, you know there are
references. It is not something that
is hidden. In fact they seem silly to me you know, but it is part of it. One
thing politics has done for me is that it has really made me impenetrable. Nothing gets to me. You can say anything but I will
rationalise it and move on, which I think is also healthy because it can be a
cruel world out there.
You are doing great things in Cross River State
and nobody seems to know, except one who visits the state.
There is time for everything. We are not doing all
these to gain fame. We are trying to build an economy in our state and if I
were trying to promote myself I would make a lot of noise because we have
media. We have a television, we
have a radio. But I am not trying
to build a cult figure around Donald Duke, we are determined that we can do
something out of nothing. We are not a wealthy state, we don’t have big
resources coming in but we have the will and that is what is important. We have the will to change the lot. If
you tell an average Nigerian that you want to do some of the things we are
doing here, they would say get away from here. When we decided to carry out some of these projects we
didn’t have the resources, but I am assuring you that come April, most of
these things would be ready. So,
why wont you make noise then because they are ready. Once they are ready we
would advertise it but not to attract attention to ourselves but to attract
attention to the facilities. We
are marketing the facilities we are not marketing Donald Duke.
Your state is one of the cleanest in the
country, how did you achieve that
and how are you sustaining it?
You can’t talk of tourism and have an
environment that is not enduring and alluring, you know. So, we just got down
to cleaning our environment. It
was difficult though because first of all, you’ve got to change the
attitude of the people, you have to get the people to appreciate it. The
governor may want a clean environment but if the people do not appreciate it
nothing would happen. Today if you go to any of the streets in Calabar and
throw things on the ground people would take on you. It has been a journey we
started when we came into office and it took about three years to take root and
it is growing. We are challenging ourselves to even do better and all that.
You must give kudos to the people for embracing it.
Initially when we started there was resistance but it got better. And again, I
thank my colleagues in the cabinet.
There is a story that if you are a leader of a flock don’t go too
far ahead. When we started all we wanted was for the place to be prestine
overnight. People rejected
it. Then we stepped back and went
gradually and they started appreciating it and visitors were euphoric about it;
they said nice things and people appreciated it even more. Now, it has taken a life of its own.
Something very interesting happened about three months ago; the system broke
down and we had pile ups, garbage bin not cleared and all that and I got calls
and people were upset and all that. I took joy in that because I told myself
oh! so you guys like this thing.
We understand that the state receives one of
the smallest allocations from the Federal Government. How do you source money to embark on the huge projects in
the state?
We do a lot of financial engineering. It is not how
much money you get, you have to be very clear in your vision. We don’t
hold or host functions in Cross River State. One of the reason is that we are very frugal with our
spending. Look at this Obudu Cattle Ranch project for instance, we went to the
bond market, raised N4 billion, internally we have been able to source about N2
billion and we are doing this. I am going to put all this back in the market,
we are going to get the money back and we’ll go and do other things. But
the fact remains that it would remain here, it would be privately owned,
privately managed to be sustainable and I probably will be able to raise about
N6 billion back and take it to critical areas, invest about N2 billion in
education, a billion in health, then infrastructure which would support this
again. So, it is just about being
prudent with the resources.
Most of these projects are investments that
would not yield fruits in the recent time. Why are you pumping so much money into them?
You are wrong. I just told you that when I sell this
I would make back my money. That is what people don’t understand.
Agriculture, yes you would not make immediate gain because the world culture
connotes time, right. So, agriculture is an on-going thing. Ten, twenty years I am not bothered but
let’s sensitise and grow it. But this one (the ranch) we would make our
money back.
Thinking along that line are you worried about
who would take over from you and be able to continue and sustain the tempo of
development in the state?
If there is any political family in Nigeria it is in
Cross River State. We have a family of people who share common ideals and I am
sure within that family we would find someone. But you see when you do
something enduring it would be very difficult to reverse. The problem I think
we have in Nigeria is that we have never really got certain standards okay.
When you set standards it would be very difficult for people to deviate because
if you try to back track the public would take on you. It is like our urban
sanitation, if I leave and another man comes and does not continue with it he
would be very unpopular. But again it would be arrogating too much to oneself
to think that there is nobody that can take over effectively.
I believe that
there are people who would be challenged by what we have done and that
challenge would propel them to do even better and that is what the state
needs. I hope that whoever takes
over would do far, far better.
Recently one of the governors said he knew
those who would not succeed him.
What is the idea in Cross River State?
I know that sometime some of us say such things.
Sometimes it is jocular you know. It has become like a chiche “I know
those who would not succeed me”.
I don’t think I would say that sort of thing, I think it is
improper, I think it is a way of putting oneself in the place of the almighty.
Most politicians that I have spoken with in and
outside the state believe that you are a good vice president material for 2007.
What would you say to this?
Why vice president? To who? That’s wrong. First
I have no post 2007 ambitions. Secondly, a vice president does not have any
executive functions. To be a successful vice president, you must be in tandem
with your president; you must think alike. You cannot deputise for or be vice to someone who you are
philosophically opposed to his government. I don’t need that office to be
accomplished if you know what I mean. It is quite flattering when people say
that but when they say vice presidential candidate I would ask to whom. It is not an office in isolation, it is
an office tied on to another and it is a by-product of one. So, you ought to know whether the one
who holds the main office is your soul mate. If it is not and I accept the
responsibility then I would be a bad vice president, okay. But if he is my soul mate then I would
be inspired to give that I have. It is only in Nigeria people aspire to be vice
president where there is no presidential candidate. I don’t understand
it.
Why do you want to limit your political career
to 2007? why don’t you have post 2007 ambitions?
I don’t have ambitions for public life after
this because there are few things I want to do privately. But you see, first of
all, it is too early. It is too hazy
you know and the moment I start thinking about it I would lose focus. Right now
we are at a critical stage in our state where there are certain things that we
must put in place otherwise we would be like runners that have run a good race
but towards the finishing line lost focus.
The second term offers you a good opportunity to
finish gloriously. That is what I want to do. But if I start setting my sight on something else, you know
I won’t finish one. Look, we have a tourism circuit starting from the Marina.
You have been here (Obudu Cattle Ranch) but you have not been to the Marina by
the time the Marina is ready you would have another beautiful location in
Calabar, it is historical, it is
cultural. It is going to be a smaller version of the V and A water front where
you have sailing, ampi- theatres, slave museum, a lot of recreation and all
that. From the Marina and the cruise ships right through to the water falls, to
the forests and we are going to build the longest canopy walk ways in our
forest right through to here. It is an incredible tourist thrill. Then you have
TINAPA which is a business resort.
It is by far the largest in Africa - 2.5 million people expected.
Between TINAPA and here (Obudu ranch) you have about 3.5 million people coming
into the state to spend money.
You can easily generate into the local economy
anything between N70 and N150 billion. With that sort of thing among others, it
automatically means that Cross River State has an economy. I have a tax base, I
have people who have disposables income and it is at a critical stage. We are raising funds and we are setting
TINAPA on the right course. It is
a N26 billion investment. I don’t really have time for anything else but
this.
May be when everything is in place and as we are drawing
closer to 2007 things things would get a bit clearer and then one could start
indulging in what’s going to happen, what role can one play and things like that. So really I am
just keeping my options open but I don’t have any personal drive for anything
so I don’t go into meetings with anybody. I owe nobody no favours. The
moment you say you are running for office people would come to you and you have
to start looking for money because they would come with all sorts or favours
and you are obliged to be nice to everybody. I have to look for the money to be
nice to everybody. You would not
only lose focus if care is not taken,
you would also start to compromise on your financial dealings in the
state. I don’t want that to happen.
With all the things you are doing in the state,
why would anyone be against you?
May be there are some people who think that I am
looking for something, so they thought they should hack me down before I even
start. That is a possibility. The politics in my state can be sometimes
vicious. There are people who just feel that we need to divert his attention so
that he can have a poor finish, but it is very difficult. Politicians don’t work with
logic; it is very difficult to say that this is where this man is going but it
doesn’t affect me. I am not in any way disturbed. You see the best
politics is do the right thing. And when you do the right thing, invariably you
are at peace with yourself.
I will give you an instance. Just before the local government
elections, we had a situation where I had to drop 4000 people from the pay role
of the local government. I was
under pressure because people said it was the wrong time to do. These people
were not properly employed but people wanted me to wait until after the
elections. To me that is deceit.
If they had to go they had to go.
Wee should learn to do what is right and not what is expedient. It was
the right thing to do and we did it and it did not affect us because we won
overwhelmingly in Cross River State.
I explained to people why we needed to do it.
Talking of politics in this state, when your
former deputy, Chief John Okpa, died, you were criticised. What happened?
Well, critics can say whatever, I would not pretend
that I had a wonderful relationship with John. When he passed on, we, the state
sponsored his funeral. I took a memo to council to fund the education of all
his children to graduate level and we are supporting the family. I think that is what matters and not to
show hypocrisy in public and start wailing. I won’t do that. Don’t forget that John was
impeached from office, so he could not have had a state funeral. I don’t work on grounds of
emotions so we said no and you don’t have to have a state funeral to have
a decent funeral. What would be the main concern, I want to believe, is his
family. So, we set up a trust fund
and we endowed it with N15 million. I also took an appeal to John’s
political associates, the PDM and appealed to them to contribute towards the
endowment and I hope they responded.
Even beyond that, you know his family lives abroad; we are providing
support to the family. I think that’s what matters.
There is this strong feeling that the
presidency come 2007 should go to the South-East or South-South because we have
had enough of the West and the North. From the point of view that you hosted
the meeting, what do you think?
The meeting was held in Calabar, I did not host it.
Well, I pray we grow beyond the stage where we agitate the state where the
president comes from using primordial sentiments. Sooner or later you will find
out that a leader is detached from where he comes from. A leader is a leader.
I wish we could evolve to the level where if the West
would provide us with quality leadership we would embrace it. But if we want to
use sentiment, the South-South would say every other zone had had it we have
not had it, okay. But should it be just anybody in the South-South? That, to
me, is hogwash. It is not for
anybody. We don’t have the luxury of those sentiment.
I have been to this state about four times this
year, but it has been difficult tracking you down. Do you have time for your
family?
I have a good family, so I am fortunate. My wife is
involved in what I am doing. My eldest is 14 and the youngest is 6 years old. I
have three of them,. We keep in touch and when I am not around I speak to them
on phone everyday. They would like me to be around more often but they
understand and that is what matters.
How do you relax?
I find
myself joy.. for me work is joyful.
When you enjoy what you are doing you relax along side it. there are stress moments but over
all I enjoy what I am doing, I enjoy creating things or seeing things evolve.
When you were in Lagos, before you became
governor, you were prominent in entertainment circles where you sometimes
played saxophone and hang out with big boys?
So you do go to De Captain? I used to play there.
What is it like now?
I can’t go to De Captain again. I have not been there for a
while but I still play every Sunday. I have a band in Calabar and we are just
changing our equipment now. Almost
every Sunday I go to play.
Where is that?
In government house. That is another form of
relaxation for me. Every Sunday I play the saxophone and I enjoy it.
What are those things that you use to do but
that being a governor has not allowed you to do again?
You know my advice to anybody is, always be yourself and you
wont miss anything. When we started, if I were faking it would one day show. So
the best thing in life is to just be yourself from the onset and to as many
people as there are at your dispositon. So, I am not missing anything. e I would not have any hang up when I
leave the office. That is a terrible thing about it for people who think they
have to get into a particular mode to be governor. You know, you have to behave in a particular way. When you
behave in such way for four to eight years to switch back to the normal mode
becomes a problem. So, just be
yourself.
|
