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'Revert To 20 Councils In Lagos? No, That Would Be Silly'
Honourable Jokotola Waheed Pelumi, Speaker of the Lagos State House of Assembly perfectly fits the bill of a politician with the attributes of a lawmaker, lawyer, 'soldier' diplomat and lecturer. A man of strong character and conviction, he is like an apostle of dialogue and progressive politics. Leaving the private practice, which he has been since 1985 to join politics, was a great challenge. He spoke to OMOKIOJA JULIUS ETO on some fundamental national issues and politics in Lagos recently.
How has it been since you assumed office and what have been your challenges and achievements?
It is been very challenging because of what we met on ground and the kind of vision that one has, coming in here, which was to see that the legislature was properly re-positioned in the scheme of things. When you consider what we suffered over the years, especially during military rule, the legislature was not properly projected and for that reason you have to re-position it properly within the polity viz a viz the other arms of government. It has been difficult, but you find out that is the general pattern throughout the federation. The legislature is not a bed of roses. It has to be properly positioned, to work effectively with the other arms of government.
There has not been any spectacular issue because I have a legal mind and background. As a Boy Scout, you prepare for every thing really. So nothing has happened that really is unexpected or surprising. And as a politician you are expected to prepare your mind for eventualities. At times, you may not have been prepared for the things that you are faced with, but you make contingency plans when they happen and you move on.
Many people believe that most of the state houses of assembly are rubber stamps.
When we came here, with a mandate to keep, we made up our minds to grow our economy, deepen our politics and develop our state. Three primary considerations. And we didn't do just that, we are not sacrificing checks and balances on the altar of expediency, if that is what you are looking for. It is extremely unfair to continue seeing the legislature as a rubberstamp, particularly in Lagos State.
There is nothing in that theory about separation of powers, which says that all the three arms of government must be completely independent. No! Because we run a presidential system of government, the three arms of government must play complementary roles. There's noting that states that statecraft must be underpinned by mutual antagonism. The theory of separation of powers does not envisage watertight compartmentalisation. It didn't say the legislature should stand on its their own, But to make matters much more significant, we now run a presidential system where the operative word is interdependence. All three arms of government are supposed to be interdependent, one cannot expect an arm to operate independently. What the theory tends to establish is that no one arm of government should take a free fall into the constitutional function of another arm. It was just to keep an eye on one another, to avoid abuse and usurpation of powers and functions, and that you are accountable where you are supposed to be accountable. So basically what we have done in Lagos state is to make sure that we operate within those parameters as our primary consideration above anything else. That probably is what informed the rubber stamp label put on us by people who do not see us fighting on the pages of newspapers. And you find out that we belong to same political family. All arms of government have to sit down and look at issues. There is a generational shift as we have moved away from that manner of politicking that says that we must always antagonise ourselves to the detriment of a more productivity-oriented, people-centred type. We have to complement another. That's what we have been doing for years.
There is the issue of creation of new local governments in Lagos State. Some people have said that the House knew that with the antagonism by the PDP-controlled Federal Government, it may not be feasible and may create problems at a point. Didn't the House discuss this with the governor before passing the bill.
There is nothing wrong with the creation exercise. All you need to do is to read the constitution. The constitution gives power to the states to create more local governments. See Section 83. Even Section 85. It says that the National Assembly can make provisions in accordance with these sections in respect only of names of the headquarters of councils created. Now, it goes further to Section 86 about complying with the provision for the purposes of enabling the National Assembly to make those consequential provisions referred to in section 85. All those things were done, vertically and horizontally, all the processes as stipulated in the constitution were integrated.
Having done that, how can anyone now suggest at the last stage that the legislature should have told the executive that what they have done is wrong? No! The intention will only be expressed by the constituents; those desires were expressed. So how can we now tell the executive to stay action? The executive is under compulsion to act on a law passed by the House of Assembly. They did that by following the dictates of the Constitution. It now behoves the National Assembly to do the right thing. that's where the problem started - constitutional obligation brought upon them by section 85 to make consequential provision only for the purposes of listing the headquarters of the local governments. They failed, refused and neglected to do that.
The argument of the PDP is that these local governments have not been listed in the constitution and so cannot be recognised.
There's no where that states that the National Assembly must sanction their existence. Just because 774 local governments were listed in the schedule is no reason to suggest that we can't create local governments. Otherwise, there is no need for section 83 and in fact section 85 takes care of that by empowering the National Assembly to make consequential provisions in respect of names of the headquarters.
With Federal Government insisting that it won't release allocations to the state, have you reverted to the old structure of 20 local governments?
Reverted? No, that would be silly that's the last thing that we would do. People were under the impression that we created 57 local governments. No we didn't. We created 37 in addition to 20 old ones. What the former law did was to give impression that 57 were created, what we did was to clear the contradictions by separating them.
The AD has been clamouring for a sovereign or constitutional conference. You know the argument on the contrary is that we can address these issues even at the National Assembly level. What form should the SNC take not to usurp the function of lawmakers?
Look at it this way, the recent happenings, the problem of minorities, constitutional amendments uprising in the Niger Delta region, we are talking of a troubled federation. Of necessity, we must talk about how we have to live together.
We may not call it a national conference. We need basically to sit down and talk about it, how we agree to live together. You are always going to have what I call the pressure cooker syndrome to address the problems of ethnic minorities, if there is a problem of marginalised regions. You will always have this pressure. This is what I call, "left the lid on the cooker." How do you now address this issue? That is why we keep advocating for it in the Alliance for Democracy (AD).
The issue of revenue allocation again, let's come back to it because it is very important: the criteria used in the past for revenue allocation. Now, even the PDP governors are clamouring for a fundamental review of the Federal allocation formula.
In all fairness of the Revenue Mobilisation and Fiscal Allocation Commission, they meant well-short of bending over backward to get representation and memos and inputs on the issue of revenue mobilisation, federal commissioners came here personally to seek inputs and they did this throughout the federation.
From history, issues of allocation have always been left in the hands of very special commissions... Appointment of members of the commission has always been left in the hands of Mr. President. So what are we expected to have? We would continue to have skewed allocation because for example the Lagos State representative in the commission was appointed by Mr. President. We in Lagos deserve more revenue because you are talking about a state that accounts for about 70 per cent of value added tax collected nationwide, a manufacturer state that has 75 per cent of the entire country's GDP, substantial percentage of customs duty, more than 2,000 industries over 60 per cent of Nigerian commercial activities, about 250 financial institutions, port and 200 thriving firms listed in the Stock Exchange. A state that is the hub of national aviation with 82.61 per cent of international departures should not have special revenue allocation? They should be together. They deserve it. But they will not give it to us because they wanted to cut the nose to spite the face. It's all about sentiment. And when you allow sentiment to overrule your sense of judgement, you will continue to have the kind of people that you have now. Look at the palliative commission for example. In Lagos State alone, we need 40,000 buses but, you are gooing to give us N100 million, that can buy only 40 buses and you are going to do that for even states with less population density? It's not fair.
Let us look at the strength of the conference of speakers. For example, if we look at the Anambra state crisis and the recent one in Plateau, some people are saying that when there was threat of state of emergency, it should not have been imposed if the conference of speakers had started lobbying their National Assembly colleagues. Is the conference of speakers is powerful to check any dictatorial tendencies?
The conference of speakers did what we had to do, don't forget that you are dealing with a National Assembly that is dominated by one party... that has the president breathing down its neck and the party too. They didn't want to follow the constitution, let alone listen to our logic. Section 102 set out the requirements for the president's imposition of a state of emergency. But what do we have, the President puts the cart before the horse, declaring a state of emergency before he sought the approval of the National Assembly. It should have been the other way round.
You now expect a body like that to listen to the conference of speakers? We took a position. Number two, you suggested that we are too docile. I say no, you find out that vested interest got emergency rule imposed on Plateau State.
On the possibility of it happening in other states or a bandwagon effect they are least interested because they have their own interest there. But that is not to say that there aint Inter-parliamentary exchanges; there are, but does it go beyond that? It doesn't because the materials for it to go beyond that stage are not there and others at us in this country like... What you are looking at in Nigeria is a pressure cooker syndrome. They have been through it before, it's a phase of democracy that we are going to overcome. The pressure would be off the moment you remove the lid from the cooker. So please don't put the blame on the conference of speakers because they are doing the best that they could.
Should traditional rulers play any significant role in thisdemocracy and modern republic?
I must agree that the present political system has been roundly faulted. The future of this country perhaps might lie in evolving a new republican constitution, along the lines of the 1963 constitution. I also will add that we may need to begin to see how we could begin to work on the proposal for a loose federation, the power of the traditional institutions. But mind you, if you look at the new local government reforms you find specific powers and functions and what the duties of traditional rulers could be in augmenting the success of the republican constitution or parliamentary or whatever system we my chose to adopt. Those item were clearly spelt out. You cannot completely rule out the kind of system which we have been operating even before the 1914 amalgamation. They have a role to play; they've played that role effectively, they have a formal judicial system. Even within the republican system they could be operating effectively and get things positively done. It's entirely out of place to suggest that if we adopt a certain constitution, the traditional rulers shouldn't have a place, or shouldn't wield the kind of power which they wielded at the local level. At the local level, people respect the traditional rulers, they are venerated, they often run to them even to adjudicate or arbitrate.
What of the contention that in a modern republican system traditional rulers should not play any role, that it is illiteracy? ... I don't think so; can you completely, wholly cut yourself away from your roots? You cannot; this thing is a continuum; you cannot achieve any total break as you are saying for the sake of modernity. Does it mean that if something works, in the UK or in the USA or in Canada it must work in Nigeria? It wouldn't work. Look at our peculiar circumstances.
What's the position of the House Assembly of the LATMA/FERMA issue?
I think the latest position of the federal ministry of works, that the operations of FERMA are illegal has answered that question. By their nomenclature, they are to maintain roads, not to control traffic, that is enough to tell you that the agency was just temporarily hijacked for political reasons. Dabbling into traffic control abinitio is illegal and we are happy the minister has said so. It is all politics.
Are you planning major bills that would improve the lives of the people?
There are many in the pipeline. There is the bill on the creation of an infrastructure development board, the private sector participation bill and others. The whole idea is to involve the private sector in funding the infrastructure base of the state either to build, operate and transfer (BOT) or whatever, or the bill on transportation.
In the area of health, there is a fresh bill that seeks to enhance productivity in service delivery, the capacity of each of the state capital, moving away from being centralised to enhance service delivery. These are the few examples that readily come to mind. There are more in the pipeline. By the time they are passed and government begins implementation you will see the difference. May I say that since this house was inaugurated in 1999, it has passed several bills which have changed the face of Lagos and impacted on the lives of Lagosians tremendously.
Looking ahead to 2007, do you foresee the AD going into alliance for the purpose of getting to the centre? Two, will you support the call for the Presidency to go to the Southeast? Can the AD give the Igbo the platform?
The AD will always at the right time present its own presidential candidate what I envisaged is the coming together of all progressives, including those from the East or the Niger Delta, the North, under the umbrella. Until such time, you'll only continue to have the kind of problems being faced by the PDP, or that the PDP is creating for this country. When all the progressives come together, we are going to have a party that is clearly ideologically defined. The defunct AG or the UPN made no pretensions about their progressive credentials. NPN, NCNC made no pretentious about their conservative credentials. People know that AD is a progressive party, but what you have on the other
side, PDP, is a party that is a hotch potch of strange bedfellows. We are looking forward to seeing all the progressives whether in the 30 political parties or outside them coming together.
Do you believe in rotational presidency?
Circumstances at the right time will dictate or justify whether rotational presidency will be the best option for the AD to take. It is too early now to begin to speculate on what will happen in the next three years. But when we have clearly defined ideological parties issues will begin to come out ad people can then make informed decisions.
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