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 Daily
Independent Online.
* Thursday, July 08, 2004.
The concept of rotation is antithetical to democracy — Malami
In the first part of this interview
run yesterday, Alhaji Shehu Malami, the Sarkin Sudan and Nigeria’s first
High Commissioner to post-Apartheid South Africa, revealed the
circumstances that led to President Nelson Mandela’s outburst against the
country at the 1995 Commonwealth Summit in Auckland, New Zealand. Nigeria
was suspended from the organisation that year following the hanging of
Ken Saro-Wiwa and his Ogoni compatriots. In the concluding part of the
interview, he takes a look at the issues of rotational presidency,
Sovereign National Conference, among others. He spoke with Ikechukwu
Amaechi, Group Politics Editor,
in his Sokoto country home. Excerpts:
Why did you
decide to shun politics?
I
am not a politician and I don’t want to go into politics. When I became a
district head years ago, I was advised by my elders not to go into
politics. They told me, “stay where you are” and I have decided that I
won’t go into politics. My father died and I was appointed to succeed him
as the district head of Wurno and when it was time for politics and I
said I was going into politics, my friends told me, don’t go into
politics and I have decided never ever to dabble into politics.
But whether you are in
politics or not, you are an opinion leader in this country and there is
this issue of where the presidency should go to in 2007 after Obasanjo’s
second term. The North and Southeast are laying very strong claim to it.
What is your stand on the issue?
Everybody
has got his or her own opinion. You said the Northern governors said the
presidency should come back to the North after Obasanjo. What is wrong
with it coming to the North?
What seems to be
wrong is the fact that others are saying that in Nigeria’s 44 years
post-independence history, power has most of the time been in the North.
The idea seems to be that for equity, fairness and justice, the regions
that have not held power should be allowed to take a shot at it.
We
have the United Kingdom and how many Irish people have become prime
minister? How many people from Scotland and the Wales have become prime
minister? In the United States, how many people from the South have
become president? So, what is wrong if power comes back to the North? I
see nothing wrong in the presidency coming back to the North in 2007.
Do you see
anything wrong in it staying in the South for another eight years after
Obasanjo’s tenure?
I
don’t think anybody should run away from expressing his or her opinion.
What I am telling you is that the Igbo have every right to aspire to the
presidency. The North also has every right to aspire. Every zone has a
right to aspire. All I am saying is that I don’t believe in rotation. I
believe that Nigerians should choose the best, whether the person is from
the North, from the East or from the West does not really matter as long
as the fellow is a Nigerian.
But rotation has
become part of our political culture or so it seems. Can we then shy away
from it now particularly bearing in mind that Obasanjo’s presidency is a
product of rotation?
If
you are talking about democracy, you cannot say anything good about
democracy when you are already determining where the president should
come from without waiting for the voters to decide. Let the voters decide
who will be their leader; that is my position.
In a multi-ethnic and multi-religious
country like Nigeria where sundry primordial cleavages still hold down
the people, is your opinion not rather too idealistic?
Of
course, we should aspire for the ideal. But what I am saying is that
anybody can aspire to be the president of Nigeria, but we should leave it
entirely to the voters to decide who is going to be the next president,
whether a Christian or Moslem, northerner, easterner or westerner. There
is no reason why if the voters choose a northerner, he should not be the
president.
But will you
split any hair if it turns out to be a southerner?
No.
Let the voters decide. That is what democracy is all about.
Nigerians on May
29 celebrated the fifth anniversary of democracy. What is your assessment
of democracy so far?
You
are going into politics again and I am not interested in answering that
question.
I am just asking
you to assess the past five years with a view to perhaps proffering
solutions that can help the leadership.
I
have said it my friend, that I am not interested in answering that
question. You are going into subjective areas and I won’t answer. Full
stop.
How far-reaching
do you still think the influence of the Caliphate is?
How
many people did you see at the Durbar? Didn’t you see the President of
Ghana? Didn’t you see the Presidents of Niger Republic and Chad? Were
they forced to come? It was not by force. Some parts of Ghana are also
part of the Caliphate. It spreads to as far as Burkina Faso, Niger
Republic, etc. We have about five million people from the Caliphate
living in the Sudan. The Emirs in Cameroun sent their representatives.
Nobody was forced. So what more influence does the Sultan need? He calls
the people, come let us talk about what is happening in this country, in
Cameroun in Africa. That is the influence. He does not force people. That
is genuine influence and genuine acceptance of the leadership.
But people of the
Middle Belt may not agree that this influence is without coercion. They
have always alleged that the Caliphate has a predatory instinct, which
leads to their domination.
The
Tor Tiv was here for the celebration. The ruler of all the Tivs in
Nigeria, he was here. Is he not from the Middle Belt? So, which part of
the Middle Belt are you talking about?
But the political elite as
represented by the Joseph Tarkas of blessed memory and even Solomon Lar
have always fought against the perceived domination.
There
is no political compulsion. All the states are on their own. Each has its
own governor and they are not ruled by the Sultan of Sokoto. But they
accept the leadership of the Sultan. That is why the Tor Tiv was here. He
could have stayed back in Tiv land and say, look, I am Tiv and I have
nothing to do with the Caliphate. But he drove all the way from Tiv land
to come to Sokoto. I saw him the other day when I was going to the
airport, I saw him with his big entourage, about 20 cars following him.
He came all the way from Makurdi. Nobody forced him to come.
But the political
leadership of the Middle Belt did not come. One would have expected them
like the Tor Tiv to be part of the celebration since they are all part of
the political North.
Well,
if they decided not to come, it is up to them. The Sultan didn’t force
anybody to do anything or to come. It is entirely at their discretion.
But what do you
make of the insinuation that made the rounds that the incessant crises in
the Middle Belt, particularly in Plateau, were caused by some people’s
intent on going on jihad so as to still dominate?
That
is what they said about the bicentenary celebration. They said we are
trying to impose Islam on others. But you are here. Did you see us do
that? We were only celebrating something that happened over 200 years ago
and why shouldn’t we do that? Anybody who was interested to come was here
- so many people sent in messages that they were sorry they couldn’t
come. Did you see Buhari? Was he here? He didn’t come because he had
other engagements and he is from Katsina and the Emir of Katsina was here
yesterday with a big entourage. So, if Solomon Lar didn’t come, why
should he be forced to come? He is under no obligation to come.
But to what
extent would you link the crisis in Plateau to the attempt by some people
to liberate themselves from the domination of the Caliphate?
Nobody
sent message to them to rebel against anybody. The trouble is between
those who are living in Plateau. Nobody was sent from Sokoto to go and
tell them, do this or do that. It is a fight among themselves, a fight
between the farmers and landowners and between the farmers and nomads.
The farmer does not want the man who owns a cattle to leave it to go and
destroy his farm. So nobody told them to go and fight each other. The
only thing the Sultan did was to appoint a committee to go and try and
solve the problem. All that
Obasanjo did was to appoint a committee under the Emir of Zaria to go and
settle the people.
Forty-four years
after Nigeria gained her independence; does it not worry you that some
people are still regarded as settlers in their own country?
Have
you seen anybody in Sokoto being regarded as a settler? When the late
Sultan Abubakar was alive, whenever an Igboman wanted a piece of land, he
will say, go and give them land. You can be an Hausa man and living next
to him is a Yoruba, an Efik, an Igbo. So while all the crises were
erupting in Kano, we never had any trouble in Sokoto because Sultan
Abubakar said no, don’t segregate, don’t say a particular area is for
non-indigenes. They are all indigenous; they are all people of Sokoto.
But how do you
think the problem of incessant ethno-religious crisis could be solved
permanently?
Everybody
should realise that we are all Nigerians and we belong to all parts of
Nigeria and that we should be our brother’s keeper. Nobody came from the
Mars to settle among us. You find Christians and Moslems in the same
family. Why should they start fighting each other? Why? The question we
have to ask is why were they living in peace before and why are they now
quarrelling among themselves? There must have been some new elements that
were not there before. What is the new element? I am asking you.
I don’t know. You
should know better.
That
is what also I do not understand. A Muslim will be living with his
brothers and sisters together with the Christians and suddenly they start
killing each other, destroying homes and property. Islam said even during
a war, you should not desecrate any religious place whether it is a
church, mosque or synagogue. Brothers and sisters, friends who have been
living together for many years, suddenly they will start killing one
another. Why? This is the question I will ask sociologists.
But I must
concede to you that Sokoto somehow remains immune to the ethno-religious
crisis that seems to have become a permanent feature in the North. What
is the secret? Perhaps others can take a cue from you people.
But
I told you before. Several years before, we were living in peace. We
never said this is an area for indigenes and this one for foreigners.
When people come to look for places to build churches, Sultan Abubakar
will say, give them. In some parts of Sokoto, churches exist side by side
with mosques. He was Sultan for over 50 ears and he brought peace and
stability to Sokoto and tried to convey same to other places.
Do you believe in
a Sovereign National Conference?
No,
I don’t.
Why not?
You
are going into politics again. There is a National Assembly in place. Let
them decide what the future should be. Let everybody send his opinion to
the National Assembly, let them collate it and decide what to do in the
interest of the country. We have representatives both in the Senate and
the House of Representatives and I think it is their duty to decide which
way forward for the country.
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