Daily Independent Online.
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Thursday, June 17, 2004.
Northern agitation for
2007 presidency is bad - Tahir
Dr. Ibrahim Tahir, the Talban Bauchi, is a prominent member
of the intellectual class of the Northern oligarchy. A former university don,
Tahir was a one-time Minister of Internal Affairs. Not only that, he was also
one of the pillars of the NPN-led Federal Government in the Second Republic and
an ideologue of the Northern political establishment. A reporter’s
delight any day, Tahir answers every question from a sociological perspective.
Recently, he fielded questions from our special
correspondent, Godwin Egbara on burning national issues. It was the
quintessential Tahir that spoke on sundry issues, such as the 2007 presidency,
the crisis in Plateau State and the query the incumbent National Chairman of
the PDP, Chief Audu Ogbeh, who was his student in the university, gave him when
he was chairman of NET. Excerpts.
What happened in Plateau State,
particularly the declaration of a state of emergency by the president seems to
be a vindication of your position on the festering Plateau crisis?
The
fact is that since 1999, up till 2001, a momentum has built up in the southern
senatorial zone of Plateau State, especially around Langtang North and South
local governments, where there have been large-scale killings in the form of
ethnic cleansing by persons identified as rebel groups.
Of
course if you look at the situation you will know that the people who are doing
this are not the only Christians in Plateau State. So the claim that they are
fighting for Christianity is hollow.
And
you ask yourself, are they indirectly trying to overthrow the government of the
day? If you create a situation of mass slaughter over a period of five years,
it can create the psychology of a seeming lack of concern or even will on the
part of the party or government to act. The impression that the perpetrators of
the mayhem have the tacit support of the government could also be created and
that is a veritable recipe for the collapse of the central authority, in other
words, the downfall of the Obasanjo administration.
Secondly,
if you don’t think it is so, you are compelled to ask if these people are
indeed pursuing a religious agenda, or is it a cult, presenting itself as a
religion. Knowing that Plateau State, Southern Zaria in Kaduna state and most
of the cities of Nigeria are in fact a patch of mixed religions, Christianity
and Islam plus other faiths, these conflagrations become maningless.
The
horror is that nobody can contemplate the Plateau situation and the problem it
has brought to the people. It is this fact that has made it desirable for the
Dariye administration to go.
Are you not worried that the imposition
of state of emergency will polarise the state along two religious lines, since
Muslims are the only ones rejoicing now?
Let
me tell you something that you don’t know or you have forgotten. On the
pages of the Nigerian Tribune and Vanguard about three or four years ago, I
called on the federal government to scrap the Christian Association of Nigeria
(CAN).
Although
its name suggests that it is an association for the whole Christians and that
it is monolithic, the fact remains that it is a vehicle of a few religious
extremists. It is a vehicle for the ventilation of ethnicity, negative ethnic feelings,
which have nothing to do with Christianity.
The
reality of it is that what is being done in Langtang North and Langtang South
and later in Yelwa and Shendam and the whole senatorial zone are so alien to
Christian sensibility and Christian teachings. These people cannot possibly be
acting on behalf of Christians. So if CAN in Plateau State means the COCIN
Church, which in fact means the crucible of conflict and disorder, then you can
appreciate the problem.
I
said long ago, over 10 years ago that the COCIN church is breeding hatred and
trying to consume the whole of Plateau State. It is breeding hatred among the
people and I said then that COCIN should be called to order because such
negative tendencies which they profess was never the intention of either the
founding fathers of this country or those who immediately succeeded them.
Every
Nigerian that I know of likes a good life. Every Nigerian that I know of is far
more interested in pursuing a good living than engaging in a struggle,
especially a struggle that he cannot win.
If
what is going on in Plateau State is really a religious war then why are they
paying the fighters? They are recruiting these people and they are giving them
N15,000 per day. If it is truly a Christian war, why is it that only few people
are financing it? Somebody signed the cheque for N40m all alone. A certain
gentleman held a meeting in his house and collected N18m. You don’t go
around collecting money or signing cheques for N40m, N18m and N20m and yet call
it a general Christian crusade.
There
are specific problems in Langtang South and Langtang North, which has to do
with the association of demobilised soldiers and the failure of government to
meet their welfare needs especially their pension. It is a terrible situation
that I know of.
In
one sensitive security conference, this issue came up seriously to the effect
that unless something happened, there would be violence in Plateau State. The
Taroh tribe has the highest enrolment in the military and highest in
concentration of retired and uncared for ordinary soldiers. For N15,000, they
can go and fight. Note this point, the Taroh as a people are victims of land
shortage and therefore they are hungry for land like the Seyawa and the
Katafawa. All these trouble areas are characterised by certain negative
economic factors, the most critical being land hunger.
Rather
than look for land either by buying it, or negotiating for it or becoming more
or less integrated with other people, they would want to take it by force. Land
hunger and cattle stealing are the twin evils fuelling the crisis. You
don’t go and kill those rearing their cattle and carry their cattle away
and then claim that you are fighting a religious war. You are fighting a
profiteering war, a war of aggrandisement. It has nothing to do with religious
faith.
No
real Christian will slaughter a household and then request them to come back to
the land again. They will not do that. You don’t cease the property of
your neighbours and occupy people’s land all in the name of religion.
If
you are suffering from land hunger, you don’t acquire a territory to the
point of erecting a signboard that this land now belongs to Langtang South
local government or Langtang North local government. That is what they have
been doing.
You were quoted as having said;
“mark my words, up till this moment, the main body of Hausa Fulani people
are still watching the events in Plateau as a kind of adolescent, delinquent
behaviour without taking the dimension of a historical fight, because if they
did so, hell would be left loose, and you will look for a Taroh and never find
one” What motivated you to make such a statement?
It
is not a question of motivation. It is question of calculation. It is the use
of intelligence to bring to bear on a strategic situation. The fact is that
numbers are critical.
There
are about one million Taroh on the whole and about 50 million Hausa Fulani. So
if Taroh have made it really a war against Hausa Fulani and declare it as such,
it is only true to my statement.
The
whole community of these major cities of the North have not looked at the Taroh
crisis as any significant issue. It is likened to someone who is angry or
dissatisfied about a situation, and who from sounding off has become restive.
The
Taroh cannot annihilate the Hausa Fulani. If that became the point, there will
be no Taroh left. I am just telling you something that is mathematically
possible, it is not a perception.
Are you a member of Arewa Consultative
Forum? If yes, don’t you think the inability of the Forum to reconcile
Babangida and Buhari constitutes a potential danger to the unity of the North?
There
is no mission on the part of anybody to reconcile Buhari, Babangida and Atiku
or any other person for that matter. The issue of their reconciliation does not
arise because right now, there is nothing to compete for. Obasanjo is occupying
the seat and Buhari is contesting the same seat in court. It is in my views bad
manners for people to be criss-crossing the land looking for a seat, which is
already occupied by someone else.
Except
for the legal case instituted by Buhari, I have said in many publications that
I consider it extremely dangerous, high risk and very subversive for any one
who wants to become the president of Nigeria to unfold the banner of his
campaign to replace Obasanjo less than one year after his assumption of office.
The
campaign will divert the attention of the incumbent from implementing his
programmes. Moreover, such tendencies promote sectional or factional interest.
Factionalism even within the political parties is the cause of the disorder and
weakness within the nation. This can create serious security problems. Leaders
in a nation contending with serious problems should not be tearing themselves
on the pages of the newspapers. The society at large will suffer.
The North has always been known for its
monolithic nature. But of recent, the Middle Belt is agitating for a sewperate
political identity. Don’t you see the agitation as portending danger to
the famed unity of the North?
General
Yakubu Gowon in 1967 with the creation of states carried out what for me was a
vindication of my writing for a revolutionary departure from the past. When you
start campaigning for the Middle Belt, you are really campaigning for yourself.
It is only a few people who are pursuing a personal interest that are talking
of the Middle Belt.
If
people start talking in terms of divisions in Nigeria or ethnic groups, it is
unfortunate. The revolution in 1967 destroyed to all intends and purposes the
quarrel between majority and minority groups. It was when we found out that the
quarrel between majority and minority groups was very pronounced that
Benue/Plateau State had to be divided into Benue and Plateau states and
subsequently Plateau State had to be divided. There are still agitations going
on for another state to be created out of the present Benue State. Kogi State
was carved out of Kwara because of similar agitations. So, if you do a survey
of Nigerian politics over the past twenty-five years, you will neither be
sensible nor rational and you won’t be treated with respect and
seriousness if you still play the ethnic card.
It
is obviously clear that the issues at stake have nothing to do with trampling
on the rights of anybody or universal suffrage. I am amazed and sometimes
saddened by the fact that the people in Kogi State and Mayo Bawa in Adamawa
State, people in Taraba, people in the west end of Lagos State around Badagry
and people around Ogoja, Cross River State all have problems.
Each
of these problems is unique. The ordinary Fulani/Hausa cannot have the same
problem with the Tiv peasant. Each area has its own unique problem.
That
is why discerning Nigerians don’t take it serious when people talk about
the Middle Belt issue because those who orchestrate it have nothing to offer.
This is why they are flying a Middle Belt kite. But they should fly the kite of
Nigeria and the kite of Plateau State. I don’t regard the struggle for
one North as a helpful idea any longer because we should struggle for one
Nigeria first and put it inside our pocket and you know that you have a country
first before you start looking at the factions.
If
it is established that you have a country, the critical issue is that of the
individual citizens and their rights as citizens.
Nobody
in this country, including the President, has shown me so far or done anything
to suggest that the various ethnicity struggles are for real. They are sheer
opportunism.
While reviewing a book in Zamfara
recently, you were quoted as saying that the Governor, Alhaji Sani Ahmed Yerima, possessed the same
qualities, which the late Sardauna of Sokoto, Sir Ahmadu Bello, possessed.
What qualities have you seen in the governor?
First,
I did not say that another Sardauna has come. I reviewed a book entitled “Sardauna
Has Returned”. I didn’t even review it; I was a guest speaker at
the launching of the book.
The
author is a young boy of about 25 years. As far as he is concerned, he has
found certain similarities in the posture and the record of late Sir Ahmadu
Bello in the posture and the record of Sani Ahmed Yerima.
If
you are a scholar and not a political campaigner, then you treat what you have
seen with objectivity.
The
return of Sharia is the first move towards the emancipation from colonial
influence and neo-colonial control of the people of the North. Yerima has every
right to the distinction people have given him. I try to be objective in things
that I do and I said as far as I am concerned, it is even fair to say it is the
return of Sultan Bello, it is the return of
Shehu
Usman Danfodio and it is the return to the centre stage the central principle
of Islamic life, which guides people to good deeds and warns them against evil
and bad deeds.
I
have found nothing wrong about the statement. I was not there to campaign for
ANPP. I was only there to talk about a book written about an individual who I
know and who I respect and admire. Ahmed Yerima is a remarkable young man; he
has commitment and has that courage to pursue issues, which are of great
importance to the contemporary world.
I
want to also tell you that the so-called criticisms people levelled against me
are baseless. All I know is that anyone who does not like Yerima probably is a
member of the PDP. The person who went to the BBC to say why should Dr. Tahir
liken Yerima to Ahmadu Bello was probably on a vendetta mission.
I
want to say that Sir Ahmadu Bello was born of a woman like you and I. Sir
Ahmadu Bello’s brain was made the same way. His faculty was just like any
other given to people by Allah. He made use of them in satisfactorily and by so
doing distinguished himself. Millions of people in Nigeria will also acquire
distinction before this earth disappears.
Why
should Nigerians be locked in the cocoon of only Awo, Zik, Okpara, Balewa and
so on? There are credible people on the scene. The governor of Bauchi State is
doing something, which is remarkable. Aliero in Kebbi and Bafarawa in Sokoto
are fantastic governors. For Bafarawa, this man does not have formal education
to talk about. But see what he is doing. See the governors of Yobe and Taraba,
they have claims to some distinction for doing something right and for doing it
correctly. So why should we be locked up in the cocoon of Ahmadu Bello for
God’s sake. Why? Why should we be locked in the ghost of Awo, Zik, and
other people? They are our founding fathers, yes! They deserve the distinction
we give them but to say that no one else shall ever be like them is a
sacrilege. It is a primitive emotional view.
What is the relationship between you and
Chief Audu Ogbeh, considering that he gave you a query when you were the
chairman of Nigeria External Telecommunication (NET)?
You
think that I am such a person who will be talking about minor administrative
matters? The role of chairman of NET is just nothing; it is a parastatal in a
ministry.
You
think I will be sitting here thinking about the query he issued over 20 years
ago, my God, you want to belittle the Nigerian political situation?
Audu
Ogbeh was my student at a time and he is a fantastic fellow. I taught him with
the late Ayuba Kanza and the present Vice Chancellor of Bayero University Kano,
Beita Yusuf, and so many others including Bashir Tofa, the presidential
candidate of the NRC. But he and a few others I have mentioned are alpha types.
I think Ogbeh still remains an alpha type. I think he has a problem like I
have. All those who think clearly have a problem with the mundane political
class.
Audu
Ogbeh is a fine guy, he is a wonderful fellow. What he did at that time was
right but it was over something sensational, which today people will laugh at.
The Igbo are saying that come 2007, it
is their turn to produce the president but at the same time, Northern governors
are positioning themselves to capture power back to the North. What is your
reaction?
I
am one of the most sympathetic Nigerians as far as the fate of the Igbo is
concerned in this country. I believe they deserve like all other Nigerians a
place under the Nigerian sun. I think they have a case to a certain extent.
Even under this regime, the Igbo have suffered certain deprivations. I
don’t believe that there has been sufficient consideration for them. When
you look at what everybody is saying, the Yoruba have been at the stage in the
last five years and still there are some Yoruba who think the show must go
on.This is what I call the Nigerian disease. But despite my sympathy for the Igbo,
I want to go back to my position and I have never left that position since the
constitutional debate of the 1970’s and the formation of NPN, which I
spearheaded as a national movement.
The
notion of rotational leadership in a complex country with diverse problems or
any polity at all is not the best. Once you reduce leadership, which is a
matter of excellence and uniqueness to simplistic considerations such as
ethnicity, then I am afraid because, you have reduced leadership to a very
cheap level not worth considering.
I
am silent about all these agitations because to me it is a tragicomedy. We
should not promote the impression that the Igbo are more neglected simply
because they have not tested the presidency because if we do, we are motivating
future generations of Nigerians to think in sectional terms. When they acquire
leadership they will use it to promote sectional interests and that is sad.
I
hope that there will be a constitutional reform and we should get out of this
nonsense. Yes, by all means we should treat everybody fairly. The person to
emerge as president should use the principle of federal character as a guiding
principle rather than seeing its inclusion in the constitution as a mere
formality. The Northern agitation for the next president to come from the North
is not a good idea.
