The interview would have gone on and on but it had to be cut short.
However, in the about 40 minutes Governor Olagunsoye Oyinlola granted this interview, it became clear that here was a man who had learnt from a bitter, past experience and ready to do well for his people and state.
His constituency projects programme, which appears to have presented his administration as one with the interest of the people at heart, is sure to receive a boost in the next budget of the state.
But Oyinlola was magnanimous and humble enough to admit that the idea came from the speaker, an idea which he had the liberty to either ignore or accept. He accepted. And today, both the executive and the legislature are the better for it. He has even promised to increase the funding for the programme.
He also talks about his experience in Lagos State, just as he cleared the air on the ‘no bitumen’ saga.
On the Yoruba nation, he presented a set of advice just as he explained why Nigerians should be patient with President Olusegun Obasanjo.
On the 2007 contest, for a man caught between Ibrahim Babangida and Atiku Abubakar, his escape route was located thus: "I am a systems man, anybody that the party says will be our flagbearer, there I will pitch my tent because we must understand the means to abide by the system provided by the constitution of the party. If we go by the constitution, we will not miss it, that is why I say whoever the party says will be the flagbearer, that will be my man."Excerpts:
This issue of constituency projects which seems to have availed your administration so much goodwill, how did it come about?
Honestly, I must confess, it wasn’t my idea. It was the Speaker of the state House of Assembly who came with the idea. He said the norm is that granted, they are law makers, but the question is how many of their people understand the principle behind law making and being in the House of Assembly. At the end of their four years, what the people would want to ask for is what have we benefitted from your four years as an honourable member. So, he suggested that we take a cue from the national and provide some constituency funds for projects in their constituency. And besides that, they are closer to the people and are, therefore, in a better position to know what the needs of the people really are. He also said that would make the dividends of democracy go down further to the grassroots.
I bought the idea but I was reluctant and very cautious. One of the reasons for my reluctance was the fact that at the national level, the success level is something else so I agreed to go along with the idea with caution.
The original idea was that I provide N10million per constituency and we have 30, that would have been N300million. But because I wasn’t sure of what would happen at the end of the day I said it would be nice if we start with just N5million per constituency. So I provided N150million.
And I must confess, it has been a very worthwhile success because when we went round doing the commissioning of projects, I never believed my eyes.
The sphere of endeavour are three: Building of blocks of classrooms, provision of boreholes and rural electrification. What I saw the House members do was overwhelming, I must confess, and because of the huge success recorded, I have decided that the first thing I would discuss this morning at our SEC (State Executive Council) meeting is to provide the balance of N150million to them to go ahead and do more for the people of the state.
I have also decided that every year the constituency project item would form an integral part of our budget.
In fact, I would double it next year because this idea has really shown that governance could get to the grassroots as fast and as thorough as possible. I got to some villages, there was an old man; he was shouting 'has he gone', I parked and told the baba I was here, he said he thanked God that he was able to talk to a Governor in his life, he was an old man in the village.
So, the projects were cited where they are really needed.
But do you have in mind the fact that some observers may then begin to wonder whether you would not leave some other areas of governance unattended to? And what would you say can be achieved to make you savour that sense fo fulfilment?
All the areas that were enumerated within the context of my inaugural speech, we have paid attention to; and if we are given the opportunity to govern, this is the kind of thing we will do. And I told the the House members and the people of Osun sincerely, that if we can get portable water running within Osun State, our administration will be credited, if we can also resuscitate farming, which has been the main economy of people of this state, then people will credit us with good administration. If we are able to carry out good health care delivery system, then people will love the administration together with the other infrastructural programmes that we have commenced; and we remain focused and I must say I have learnt quite a lot from my experiences.
Having served as a chief executive in a state like Lagos, when you compare the experience you have now with what you had in Lagos, what would you say are the differences?
In this particular instance, we can conceive of an idea, policy or programme that will serve the interest of my people; but in the case of a military governor, I was limited to what I could do.
Take for instance, we were ordered not to embark on any new project, and I think Diya is still alive, that was the instruction, he was the Chief of General Staff, so whatever you want to do, there is need for you to obtain permission. In a way, your governance is tele-guided, so the freedom of executive programme is not there but here I’m only responsible to the people of the state.
But when you were in Lagos, things got so bad that the only slogan most people remember you for today is that of ‘no bitumen’...
I think I have answered this question a couple of times and I think I had an opportunity to tell Nigerians on this programme one-on-one. You see people just want to say things that will serve to buttress their own interest. Truly, when I was in Lagos, one thing people must not forget is that it wasn’t the problem of bitumen that was the only problem, I came from the battle field, I was appointed the military administrator of Lagos state. At the heat of June 12, I managed to bring together the thinking of the people that led to the sustenance of peace without firing a shot.
That we were able to achieve this, I think it’s over and above any other.
Now to the issue of bitumen. The only refinery that was producing bitumen is Kaduna refinery and it got burnt down. There is no bitumen to do road. I wrote an application to the Federal Government to allow me import Bitumen. Gen. Adisa was the Works Minister, he can testify to it.
Instead of me being allowed to import at the rate of 22 naira to the dollar, I was asked to go to the black market of N84 to the dollar, that translates that I will be tarring a kilometre of road at N15 million instead of N4 million. I don’t know how I can explain that to Lagosians that I’m not being fraudulent.
So it will be silly of me to want to go for this kind of thing, so I went to the public, I say look, if anybody knows the means we can use in getting this thing, such a person should come forward.
It was only one response, he was the only one that was able to supply the much he had, which was nothing compared to what we needed. Then, when there was no major solution, I went and awarded the roads to major contractors, leaving them with the problem of sorting out issue of bitumen. I gave the entire Victoria Island to HFP. I gave the Lagos Island to Julius Berger and Westhern Avenue to Strabag. Lagos/Abeokuta road was given to MW construction. There were 5 major companies and I mobilised each. All the companies are there, what else do they expect from a man in that circumstances, and that’s why I said I made a mistake because I thought I was a military man and there’s no need shouting about what you do and that’s why I’m not making the mistake again. So that’s exactly what happened, because I took all steps to address a problem that was wrong, but nobody ever mentioned that contracts were awarded, they were started & terminated by the administration after my own.
And they went into direct labour, it’s a shame that nobody could come up and acknowledge that the same award of contracts I did then was the same thing Governor Bola Tinubu eventually did. I knew then that direct labour will not solve the problem of Lagos. My experiences then was that, as far hinterland as Maiduguri there was one company that was doing a road there where the rainfall is not as much as that of Lagos. Jos, that road in township was done by Julius Berger, Straberg did that of Kaduna.
But the rainfall in Lagos is such that there is no direct labour that can solve the problem. I discovered it can become a source of money making venture for some people, it will be good in that season but once the first rainfall comes, it is gone and I feel why will I be awarding the same road every year, so that is one of the things that informed my decision to award it to major contractors. But nobody has been able to say these are the steps I took to address the issue. But those who want to play politics would always have something to say. They would want to say I have not taken adequate steps to tackle the problems.
Now, back to the constituency projects; is there any possibility that the scope would be expanded beyond just those three issues?
Honestly, I wouldn’t want to expand the projects because some of these schools were built in 1955 since the commencement of the free education programme; most of them are not standing and the educated ones within the villages are where people are still studying and that’s where they are now putting the classrooms. I see it as a good system of replacement and I want to continue with it. The state is doing its best on water, agriculture, roads and the health system.
Apart from these constituency projects, how would you say your administration has fared in the 18months, considering the fact that your predecessor was said to have been the best performing Alliance for Democracy, AD, governor?
Very marvelous and successful programmes although health care delivery system will sustain the supply of health care delivery agencies. We noticed that in our health care system, that is to say after the primary health system, the secondary is not fully put in place, that is the hospitals. We now say how do we bridge this gap for people to take advantage of what people in the state capital are taking, so we bought ambulances to bridge the gap so that people with critical cases will utilise and take advantage of teaching hospital and that's why we are planning towards the next budget that hospitals must be built in all the 9 federal constituencies. Then we are looking up to establishing drugs manufacturing unit, I take a cue from Lagos and ensure quality drugs are supplied to our health institutions.
What are those things that you would say you have done but which, with the gift of hindsight, you would have done differently?
When I came in, the internally generated revenue was not particularly encouraging but today it's up by over 50%
We would have noticed that some 28 TCO’s were sacked and I have written to the colluding banks and have discontinued my patronage with such banks because the loss of N58 million that was discovered would not have been possible without the connivance of the staff of the bank. I have written them that I am discontinuing my patronage for this reason. This is to assist them, because if they continue this way, they will continue to lose customers.
How would the governors handle the issue of President Obasanjo and his insistence that he would not share the excess proceeds from the sale of crude oil as stipulated by the constitution?
I happen to be the spokesperson on the meeting of the governors, and my own position does not differ from what the conference of governors reached; and that is the fact that please agree to the context of the constitution which says that all monies that have been paid into a purse and you don’t say that when there’s excess, no and that is the issue that we are taking on with the federal government.
But the NNPC is operating in a way to show that is all you can get; they said bring all. You cannot disburse money on behalf of the federal government, they said "bring all money into the common purse", according to the constitution, then we will say where it should go. The constitution says all monies should be brought to the common purse.
But this question is against the backdrop of what happened to the southern governors in the year 2001. They were supposed to be meeting in Enugu and the feeling then was that the federal government would be taken to court. However, at some point, the governors were convinced to drop the issue of litigation only for the same federal government which prevailed on the governors not to go to court, simply sued the governors and brought in the resources control case against some governors, all of them from the south?...
(Cuts in) I was still a law student then (laughs)
The issue of litigation; can’t the federal government be taken to court?
I would want to see that as the last option because we all swore to uphold to the dictates of the constitution and if there is any breach of any part of the constitution, it is our constitutional right to draw attention and take necessary steps.
But I wouldn’t want it to get to the extent of going to court.
This issue would have been taken on in the last council of state meeting but for the fact that the revenue allocation committee was disbanded and that is why we could not discuss the new allocation formular, and until another one is put in place before we can discuss on the new allocation formular.
So, in your estimation, wouldn’t it be wiser for this president to seek a constitutional amendment than this shambolic approach being adopted?
One thing that is non-negotiable is that no one can tinker with the constitution but if we want another style, another method, to hold, then let’s take it. Whatever is good for the country, will be accepted by all; but the people must be convinced to change any part of it.
The constitution is not to be breached in any part.
Now, as a PDP governor, no matter how well you try to serve your people at the state level, the unitary style imposed on the nation makes the policies in Abuja to weigh down heavily and negatively on whatever good you try to put in place for your people. How does that make you feel that your party man is the president and he is the butt of all manner of abuses and insults on account of the people’s perception of his administration?
I don’t see any person that will put himself forth for the service of the nation that will not mean to do well whether at the federal level, state or local level. The issue one must take note of is that there are certain things that you just have to take action and do. The moment they go into the public debate, you may not be able to carry out such policies because the other things have been politicised; those that would be adversely affected by that type of a programme would have engineered so much of controversy that at the end of the day, they would be jettisoned to do a good thing that will serve the general interest of the people at the end of the day.
So, I think every other person that is in government will mean well and every body knows how best to carry out his programme that will serve the majority of the people rather than few individuals.
Nigerians seem to be stuck with a president who is hooked on importation of petroleum products rather than seeing to it that the local refineries work. How does that make you feel as a PDP governor whose president is perpetually abused?
The question is why are they not working and that’s why the man said deregulation, sell the refineries; institute ideas and I bet with you by the time they privatise the things, everything will be working, that is the problem with us, they will apply the same Nigerians and they will achieve the best service that will make the thing work 24 hours because it is no longer what it is. All he needs is a matter of time. Here is a president who is perpetually under serious pressure and Nigerians should really be thankful to God because he is doing so much but people are just being impatient.
Today, the Yoruba nation seems to be is disarray. What, in your own view, should be the way forward for the Yoruba nation?
I think one step that must be taken is that the Yoruba’s must see themselves as one, irrespective of their political parties.
First and foremost, we are all Yoruba’s before we all decide to go into whatever political parties that suit our own aspiration. And that is why I cannot understand why I won election as a Yoruba man, I cannot get a congratulation message from the leaders of Afenifere, an organisation which is an umbrella for the entire Yoruba nation. I’m not an Hausa/Igbo man. I won an election on the platform of the party that I believe in, did that make me less a Yoruba man; and until that issue is addressed - and all I expected from Afenifere was 'congratulations you have won your election, we wish you well, this is the Yoruba agenda, carry it up with our agenda' and I will have a sense of belonging.
But because I’m not an AD man, am not an Afenifere, that will not separate issues, I’m a Yoruba man and I give thanks to God I’m a prince too, so they should carry me along; it’s not the only people in AD that are Afenifere.
It is not an organ serving the interest of Yorubas, even there are other people that belong to that party, so until we see ourselves as one and operate as one.... Okay, we are one under whatever party, but you are Yoruba a man, this is the Yoruba agenda which must be requisited, I’m not a bastard, I will go along and do what I’m supposed to do in the interest of the Yoruba nation.
Now, General Ibrahim Babangida had been your boss for decades and now you have Vice President Atiku Abubakar as your political leader. Between these two, who would you want to pitch your tent with for the 2007 contest?
I don’t have any limit, you’ve analysed it well, I have known Babangida for decades and I have been serving with the Vice President since I became Governor and I have continued to say it that there is a constitution guiding the existence of our political party; it spells out the means and ways of selecting some candidates to presidency. I am a systems man, anybody that the party says will be our flagbearer, there I will pitch my tent because we must understand the means to abide by the system provided by the constitution of the party. If we go by the constitution, we will not miss it, that is why I say whoever the party says will be the flagbearer, that will be my man.
