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Plateau: Lar wants all
democratic structures restored
Chief Solomon Lar or Baba Plateau
as he was described recently by vice president Atiku Abubakar, has paid his dues
in the country’s political terrain.
Apart from having led the ruling Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) he won twice,
the Plateau State governorship seat in the defunct second republic from a
minority political party, and played a major role in the emergence of Chief
M.K.O. Abiola as the presidential candidate of the old Social Democratic Party (SDP)
during the annulled June 12, 1993 presidential election.
In this interview with our Correspondent, Moses Ezulike, Chief Lar urges
the Federal Government to restore all democratic structures from November 18
when the initial six months emergency rule will lapse. Excerpts:
LET us look at
the party system in the country. Although we are operating a multi party system,
critics have said that the ruling PDP has not spared any efforts towards making
Nigeria a one-party state. How would you react to this?
The constitution says Nigeria shall have a
multi party system, so how would it be? It is true that PDP is overwhelming at
the moment, but it may not continue to be that way. The PDP has a very good
programme but other parties can in future pull the strings, that is depending on
how competitive their programmes are.
In any case, it is too early. How many
years? Just six years! Look at India where one political party ruled for 40
years. The people tolerated the party; they were patient and hoping and working
for a change. And at the appropriate time, the change came, and went to the
other party. Ditto in Britain, the Labour was losing for sometime, but
today they are in government because the change has become imperatively
unavoidable. The party worked for it along with its supporters. I think this is
the second tenure of the labour government in Britain. Please let us be patient.
The historical evolution of political
parties in Nigeria shows that Nigeria from the first republic started with the
multiparty system, up to the second, republic which gave way to the Babangidas
two party structure. Today, the country is back to the multiparty system. What
are the major advantages in the system that can’t be found in other systems like
the two party structure that many consider more unifying?
You see, no matter the drawbacks of today
in the multiparty arrangement, you can still get several advantages that have
made it a fancy of many democracies today. One, it kills the spirit of
dictatorship. Once you have a multiple party system the other parties check the
one in government against dictatorial tendencies. It therefore puts the party in
government on its toes, because any dictatorial leaning will be resisted. So you
have to be careful, because nobody wants to be dictated to by somebody.
So if you have a dictator, he will be
doing so at the peril of his party not wining or not coming back the next time.
That is the thing.
You said that we have to be patient with
the ruling PDP. Do you think your party or even the ANPP is a model to follow in
terms of party discipline, and programme implementation?
Well you see, the problem here is when you
do not take part in preparing the script you will not be able to act it well. So
where you see people seemingly not pursuing the party’s programme, it is because
they were not there at the beginning or they were not there as members. And they
did not know the manifesto of the party, so what they will be doing is quite
wrong.
In the first republic for example, the
parties then were said to be ethnic or tribalistic in nature. What can you say
of today’s parties have they fared any better especially with the clamour for
the zoning or rotation of the presidency?
No, no, no, that is the beauty of today’s
parties beginning with the PDP and the rest. There has been no trace of
tribalism whatsoever. That is one thing you can say of PDP.
Forty four years after independence,
nothing seems to be moving, most people still see Nigeria as a toddler. How has
the country fared?
I disagree with such negative views that
our country has not grown. The fact that we are a free people, not under
anybody’s tutelage or whims and caprices, the fact that we can take far reaching
decisions affecting our economy or polity by ourselves, without anybody’s
interference or somebody lording it over you is something of an achievement. Of
course, I agree, we could have gone further than where we are currently, if not
for incessant military interruptions. But looking at it generally, we have made
some landmark achievements.
This present administration, for example,
is not leaving any stone unturned to ensure that this country moves forward. In
the beginning, it started with making sure that Nigeria’s pariah status in the
international community is corrected. Let me therefore tell you that this
administration has done very well by restoring the battered image of this
country from that a pariah state into a democratically, enviable, strong, virile
and vibrant polity. And it is respected at the comity of nations, which is to
say internationally, Nigeria today, is respected at any international forum.
The name- Nigeria elicits certain
interests or sentiments if you like, in any global event because we are a unique
people. You will see that Nigeria is highly preferred to any other black African
state. So when Nigeria appears at any such conference or event, the continent of
Africa has arrived. So I think, that is one thing we should be proud of and that
is what this government is consolidating on.
Also, we have been able to carry out all
these new developments. Look at what you are holding there (pointing to the
telephone hand set), we have been able to pay for them, we have been able to
have enough money to import the call phones or whatever name you call them. You
can even see the competition among the GSM operators, the MTN, Globacom, Econet
and so on. It is fantastic, and we are reaping these dividends because we are
operating a democratically elected government.
The economy has been able to sustain all
these because of the focus and efforts of the administration, which in my view,
has not done badly. Of course, there is room for improvement. We may not have
attained the height of such democracies like the United States (U.S.) or
Britain, the fact that this country remains one indivisible entity is a great
achievement!
The North, the South East and the South
South geo political zones are each agitating that they should produce the next
president of the country come 2007. What is the thinking in the PDP this time
around?
I think the position is left with the PDP
as a party, but according to our arrangement as it were, which took place here
in Jos in 1998, at the University of Jos, we said look, the North has been boxed
into a corner and it invited that because of the June 12, 1993 annulment. And
the South has been complaining that the North has been lording it over them.
So in order to make this power shift a
reality, let the South have it this time; they should have it full fledged then
the North, that was then the agreement. But as I said, that was then, that was
1998. Today, we are in what year?
2004?
2004! (laughs), Well, you know I am no
longer the chairman of the PDP. I am an ordinary member of the party. So this
was what happened.
What is your personal position on the
issue, speaking as a leading light in the party? Should the presidency remain in
the South or return to the North beginning with the Middle Belt?
Let me tell you, there will come a time
when some of these things will make no sense- when people are thinking of
Nigeria. For now people are thinking of their zones. This time around, let my
zone have it, this time around, let my ethnic group have it, otherwise this
country will go into abyss.
But you as opinion moulders, I want you to
write feature articles, and say Nigerians, this time around, let us think
Nigeria, rather than thinking zonally, ethnically or what have you.
But the agitation for the presidency by
various contending geopolitical zones has intensified despite your advice, what
do you think is responsible?
Well let me say this: people will be wrong
to think that, "if we have the presidency come from our zone, we will be better
off developmentally. But you will be disappointed. How many heads of state have
we had from my zone (Middle Belt)? Three! And yet, our zone is the most
backward. So it does not follow. Please if that is what you are thinking about
the presidency, just forget it. Remember we are still growing as a nation state.
A lot has happened within your party here
on the plateau, since the imposition of state of emergency rule. In fact it took
the personal presence of President Olusegun Obasanjo to organize a reception for
the returnees to the party. What then is your reaction to the return to the PDP
of such decampees like Air Commodore Jonah Jang, (rtd) Mr. D. T. Sango and
others? What are its implications for the stability of the party in the state?
I am very happy that those of them that
helped me found the PDP are back to the fold. So I am extremely happy with that
Air-Commodre Jonah Jang was a member of G-13, and later a member of G34, where
he played a very very important role, ditto D. T. Sango. He was a strong
founding member of the PDP, many of them. Honourable Magni, Hajiya Ladi Nimlang
etc. They have come back home, as far as I am concerned; they did not decamp,
rather, they are back to their home, which they helped to construct, which they
helped to build.
Some observers have read or imput a
political undertone to the recent visit by Vice president Atiku Abubakar to the
state especially with his link to the 2007 presidency. How do you see that
visit?
I am very happy at the timely visit of the
Vice president of Nigeria, Alhaji Atiku Abubakar, and his good remarks over the
happenings on the Plateau these past few years. He was frank. His speech was in
fact challenging especially the aspect where he spoke in Hausa, if you
understand Hausa. His visit was simply to declare the peace conference closed.
So who is imputing political motive?
He described or if you like re-emphasized
the fact that Plateau has always been the hub of the Middle Belt. And as a
Middle Belt people, we are known for our tolerance and our hospitality to other
people, but unfortunately, it turned out to become some thing else. We are very
happy with his speech, we are grateful to him, particularly over his assurance
that every thing will be restored. I am very happy he has seen everything
himself. I am very happy that he witnessed the closing ceremony, with the
various plays or dramas reflecting our diversity of culture, ethnicity and
religion which have often been built on our age long peace and unity. That was
very good up to the point that when you are not a Taliban you feel that
Taliban is bad. Is it not so? And when you are a Taliban you feel
that the other culture is bad. I am giving an example.
One thing however is, we all are one
people made by God. Those plays in their central theme reflected that oneness.
That was quite good, and I will recommend them to be played either in the radio
or television for the general appreciation of all Nigerians.
The speech of the administrator was also
good. He is a man of action, and he has done very well, to bring about peace in
the state. We are extremely grateful to him. We are also grateful to all the
delegates/participants at the peace conference, all of who have contributed in
one way or the other to the restoration of peace to the state. To the federal
government, we say thank you again and congratulations.
What does this situation now mean for the
state?
Now that that has happened, now that
everything has died down, the natural thing is to ask the governor and his
deputy, and the state house of assembly to come back. In other words, restore
all the democratic institutions to their place. This is what I am saying in
summary.
It appears certain groups opposed to
Dariye are working against the return of the dismantled democratic structures
you have talked about. How do you react to that?
I heard so I think there are two forces. I
don’t know whether that was a rumour or what. People should guard against
dangerous rumours.
But please they should not do so if it is
true. We are following the constitutional provisions. I had earlier said it in
my previous interview, that is the 1999 constitution that we are operating,
there are only two sections there which are 188 and 189 that allow the removal
of a governor or his deputy.
In the case of the state assembly, there
is no provision that at any time, you will collapse the assembly. That is never
done. So, to collapse the house or to suspend it is tantamount to collapsing the
system. So, it is not correct, to put it mildly.
You have just counseled against rumour,
but it is something well known that the Abuja front and the Home front
(politicians) are at each other’s throats over this return of all the suspended
political structures. Don’t you think this is capable of undermining the hard
earned peace or igniting fresh trouble in the state?
No, I don’t think there is Abuja front and
Home front. I am from Abuja and we get on very well with the leadership of the
party there. We know who the leader is, and who the members are. So there is no
power tussle between the Abuja and the Home politicians. It is straight forward,
it is as clear as crystal. Very clear, no problem.
There have been several allegations
against Chief Dariye who has been away for sometime now. Have you elders, done
your own investigations to ascertain the truth about these allegations, which
observers suggest may have influenced his continued stay abroad?
That may not be true. I think this is a
very good question. I think what may have spurred people into thinking otherwise
is the myriads of the reports purported to have come from, is it London police
or something?
The London Metropolitan Police
Yes, but you have to ask are they our
police? I mean what do they have to do with us? We investigated but the thing
is, there is no much truth in what is being reported or was reported. I think of
concern rather is the code of conduct move to say that they will declare him
something. I think that is wrong. I can say so without equivocation. He has not
been served.
Moreso, he is not in the country. So why
would you say you declare somebody wanted? I think it is wrong. We have done as
much as possible to stop that. I always tell people, these rumours of someone
doing something, I have been a victim of it on three occasions.
In 1979, June 22nd, we were cleared by
FEDECO, as it used to be called, and it was announced in 7’O Clock news. At the
same time, there was a news item in the NTA that the board of Africa Continental
Bank (ACB) had been dissolved, and that its chairman was being investigated. I
was the chairman of ACB then, but there was nothing like that.
When my people received the news that I
had been cleared, and in another breadth, that the board had been dissolved, and
its chairman was being investigated, that was to dampen the spirit of our
people. And at about 8 o’clock, the same people sent somebody that I must not
reply to it, that they have dossiers on me, that if I reply, I will be finished,
so better I keep quiet. But I said: "Solomon Lar-you don’t know me."
So the following day, I brought my press
secretary, Mr. Godwin Ironkwe of blessed memory, and we sat down and replied
them. I said: "my attention has been drawn to the news bulletin that "the board
is dissolved and the chairman is being probed." I said all that is bunkum, there
is no truth in it. So that finished it, that finished the matter. And my members
were very happy to hear this.
Now the other thing that was published in
the New Nigerian newspaper was that I was giving loans to my friends, and
the Central Bank was investigating the chairman, but they would not call my
name. There again, I replied them in the New Nigeria newspaper. I cleared
that one. The next one was when I was arrested as a governor in 1984. Sometime
in March of that year, they published that I was training guerrilla people in
the Kano forest of Kaligori, from where they said I took the guerrillas to
Gindri, later to Pankshin. And that I showed or taught them how to climb the
mountain etc. And I was wondering ah! Somebody who was already in Kiri Kiri-
"how can you publish that kind of thing?" I asked, if not to poison the mind of
the authorities so that whatever happens, I must be jailed at all costs.
So, you’ll have this kind of thing always.
But when I hear such things, I don’t attach so much importance to them, until
the contrary is proved.
Has the contrary been proved in the case
of Dariye?
We are still investigating, but let me
tell you that Dariye has not done anything of the sort; I am sure. He phoned me
and he told me it is not true. He did not have any account. How much did they
say was in his account?
They said �2 million.
Sam! That is
not true- there is nothing of the sort!
Some analysts believe that the code of
conduct Bureau invitation to Dariye may not be out of place while others
disagree in view of the fact that a suspended governor still enjoys immunity, or
what does the constitution say in this wise?
Well, you see, they have been committing a
lot of atrocities or offences. Governor Dariye today, is still technically, an
elected governor. And he has the peoples mandate. Nobody has any right
whatsoever until the rights given him under these two provisions of the
constitution are used to remove him, in which case, he would have lost his
immunity. Otherwise, he still has his immunity, and the code of conduct bureau
has no right whatsoever to do what they are doing. It is all illegal!
Before now you had chaired a peace
committee which made recommendations to the government, and just recently the
peace conference has also made its recommendations to the government. What makes
you believe these present recommendations will usher in the much desired peace,
if your own failed?
I don’t know, but I think they implemented
some of the recommendations my committee made. Mind you the difference here is,
there has been a joint police/military task force in the recent effort, which
had never happened before. But if this was given to Dariye, then the whole thing
would have died down. If he had the present apparatus of law enforcement
agencies, then all the problems would have been nipped in the bud. For example,
there is a helicopter now which they did not provide then. Despite our
suggestions to have it, no such support came.
So he (Dariye) was handicapped, quite
frankly looking at it critically.
There was this report that the federal
government had earlier granted Chief Dariye the sum N200 million as an
assistance towards curbing the security problem or are you saying the federal
government turned a blind eye while the crisis in the state intensified?
Nobody is suggesting that!
But you said he was handicapped?
And so what? If I say he was handicapped
does it suggest that em… Well, he was handicapped at that time, and later the
federal government said oh! These were things that should have been done 1,2,3.
And they have done them, and everything has subsided.
In view of the prevailing circumstances
taking into consideration the forces that are daily coalescing together against
Chief Dariye, are there chances of his coming back?
We know that Dariye was democratically
elected by the people of Plateau State and we know that he has not yet completed
that tenure.
And we also know that there has been
nothing that will stop him, because these two sections (188 and 189) of the 1999
constitution have not been invoked. So why wouldn’t he come back? Tell me, why
wouldn’t he come back? And there is no position for fresh election; there will
be no election so, why wouldn’t he come back? It flows from there that this man
has been given a mandate to rule for how many years?
But we gathered that he has been counseled
by the powers that be to resign. Have they sent
you a copy of his resignation or the directive?
What do you see are the implications or
prospects of Chief Dariye’s Court option over this Code of Conduct Bureau’s
debacle with him?
Going to court, I think, is the most
civilized thing to do. I think he did the right thing by going to court to
challenge them.
Some of his sympathizers believed it would
have been more auspicious to go to court then to challenge the state of
emergency that sacked him than now. Why wait till now?
Well, am not holding brief for him, but I
think he thought by not talking the federal government to court, the federal
government would leave him alone. But since the government has decided to
embarrass him through the code of conduct bureau, he now felt ah, ah, after all,
I am not that daft, dormant of ineffective. So let me exercise my right this
time. The right in essence can be exercised at anytime. So I think it is the
federal government that has not demonstrated good faith. Because many times he
said, "I am loyal to Obasanjo, I am loyal to Obasanjo." Is it not what he has
been saying? In fact he has even gone to the extent of saying I am loyal to an
individual rather than to a system. I think he has done a lot.
The vice president Atiku Abubakar has
variously described you as Baba Plateau, Baba PDP and Baba Nigeria, which
perhaps could be a measure of your political stature, but in a recent interview,
the deputy senate president, Alh Ibrahim Mantu, claimed he was the ultimate
political leader of Plateau State, how do you react to that?
I don’t think he is competing with me. Has
he ever said so? The young man has never said he is competing with Baba
Lar. So, why don’t we leave it like that?
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